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flanagan1000
Banned

413 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  14:46:34  Show Profile Send flanagan1000 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now I know that most people heree will say everytime that the necronomicon is a fiction piece by H.P Lovecraft and does not have actual abilities to summon magick or demons.

So why am I posting this topic? Its just becuase I realized there are a lot of groups that think that either the necronomicon is real or that the Simon version is real. I recently came across this individual called Joshua Free. According to his bio he was in occult orders since he was 12 and set up his own when he was 13. He has worked in orders ssuch as A.A., O.T.O aand Order of the Golden Dawn before going underground and releasing books under the name Marylin Stone.

http://www.necrogate.com/wp/about-joshua-free

Anyone on this page, on other pages and his youtube he has written a series of occult book based on atology called the Annunaki bible - otherwise known as his version of the Necronomicon. It takes everything from Lovecraft, ancient aliens, Mesapotanian rituals, occult everything. For example take this summary of one his books called Nine Gates of the Kingdom of Shadows:

A breakthrough for the 21st century!

Uncover the the real truth about what some call the NECRONOMICON and the true 'alien forces' behind the occult, existing in the shadows of reality for the entire history of humanity. Here is the final volume of the underground Mardukite 'Anunnaki Necronomicon' cycle.

After nearly two decades involved with this work, prolific writer and founder of Mardukite Ministries, Joshua Free, candidly reveals how these 'spiritual beings' have influenced the imaginations of 'metaphysical' writers and artists increasingly in the last century - 'primordial gods' seeking to have their stories told or reborn. What's more, these powers appear to be behind all of the systems installed into human civilization, both social and mystical, since the Sumerians.

Now, at the cusp of a 'New Age', the mysterious development of "Simon's" infamous edition, haunting narratives of H.P. Lovecraft, Thelemic work of Aleister Crowley, otherworldly communications by Kenneth Grant, the Nine Gates of the Kingdom of Shadows, a resurgence of interest into 'ancient aliens', and mainstream Cthulhu Mythos revivals by Enochian magicians like Donald Tyson all seem to be pointing toward something - some inevitable theme setting the stage for the destiny of mankind for the approaching era, uncovering the most dangerous truth about life, the universe and everything: The Great Deception of a systematic light-matrix reality under the control of the Anunnaki - the real otherworldly Gatekeepers of Life, Death & Existence.

Discover 'Necronomicon Revelations' and find out why readers are saying this is the most controversial material written by Joshua Free to date!


And believe me, him and his Marukite institute take this vvery seriosuly, They practice ritualss on opening stargates. They claim to summon magic. They have gone to the oriiginal sumarian and Babylon tablets and analysed them to gather secrets of our history and how it releates to stuff like the Necronomicon.

A list of their books can be found here:

http://www.necrogate.com/wp/buy-the-books

And Free's youtube channel where he shows rituals and how to construct stargates:
http://www.youtube.com/user/mardukite#p/u/53/1GR00PAaBjE

So from what I udnerstand he has studied the old babylonian and sumerian culture (including their tablets0 and learnt how the world works. He cites the necronomicon and the simon version as real works.

How many people out there actually think these are real books>



Edited by - flanagan1000 on 11/11/2011 15:09:39

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  15:06:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Necromonicon (book, not reference in H P Lovecraft) was written as a fan fiction derivative work. Written under the name Simon, the authors (and there were more than one) were followers of Neo-Paganism. They wrote it as fiction wrapped up in an aura of feigned legitamacy.

They were elders of the Craft and wove themes of Kabbalistic ceremony and other new age rituals and beliefs. They wrote the passages with a involke only bent.

They did us a disservice there.

Joshua Free is a liar.

The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn does not exist outside of England and not after 1905 when it was absorbed into Ordo Templus Orientus (OTO).


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13459 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  15:15:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
flanagan:
So why am I posting this topic?

Good question. Because by doing so you have disregarded a very specific warning about opening new threads on this forum until your old threads were resolved.

Flanagan. Your posting privileges are now suspended. You will receive an email from us explaining how, after a period of no less than a month from this day, a lifting of your suspension might be granted.

Kil

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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flanagan1000
Banned

413 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  15:15:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send flanagan1000 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

The Necromonicon (book, not reference in H P Lovecraft) was written as a fan fiction derivative work. Written under the name Simon, the authors (and there were more than one) were followers of Neo-Paganism. They wrote it as fiction wrapped up in an aura of feigned legitamacy.

They were elders of the Craft and wove themes of Kabbalistic ceremony and other new age rituals and beliefs. They wrote the passages with a involke only bent.

They did us a disservice there.

Joshua Free is a liar.

The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn does not exist outside of England and not after 1905 when it was absorbed into Ordo Templus Orientus (OTO).




So have you heard of this Joshua before? Becuase he has gone into all sortso f topics and claims to be an expert in ancient Mesotamia history and rituals. From what I have seen from his work at least and how he interpretates Babylon and Sumerian tablets.
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The Great
Sockpuppet

1 Post

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  17:04:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send The Great a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know I will get banned, but its vitally important you all see this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxK1MUK8AlM

Look at the comment he posted.

Thank you to those who have posted responses and yes even flooded us with you questions and ideas about the Beltane Gate.

Rest assured the cracking of the "Marduk Gate" also called the "South Gate" was successfully cracked 2009 - the full widening with continue until what#65279; some say 2011 others 2012.

There is a final gate, seventh seal correlated to the North Gate that begins to crack 2065 and will completely open after widening 2087.

2087 is the real 2012.

Thats all I will say.

Thanks

What could he possible mean, does anybody know ancient culture.

Youtube video link fixed by Kil
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  18:07:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by flanagan1000

Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

The Necromonicon (book, not reference in H P Lovecraft) was written as a fan fiction derivative work. Written under the name Simon, the authors (and there were more than one) were followers of Neo-Paganism. They wrote it as fiction wrapped up in an aura of feigned legitamacy.

They were elders of the Craft and wove themes of Kabbalistic ceremony and other new age rituals and beliefs. They wrote the passages with a involke only bent.

They did us a disservice there.

Joshua Free is a liar.

The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn does not exist outside of England and not after 1905 when it was absorbed into Ordo Templus Orientus (OTO).




So have you heard of this Joshua before? Becuase he has gone into all sortso f topics and claims to be an expert in ancient Mesotamia history and rituals. From what I have seen from his work at least and how he interpretates Babylon and Sumerian tablets.


Heard about him from various sources.

To continue from the other message. (Had to leave mid-post.)

OTO moved to California in the 1980's.

I also picked up some very specific tells that I would recognize that others might not.

His lineage claims to be from Bardic orders and OTO (Gardnerian Wicca). Both orders are secretive. Gardnerian was founded in about 1948 with Gerald Gardner in England. It did not make landfall in the States until OTO came. Garnerian Wicca, OTO, and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn were all underground movements in England due to the anti-witchcraft laws that were finally repealed in 1954. It was that law which crafted the idea that people were only known by their craft names. Real names were not known. Calling to ritual was by a binary messenger tree. No memberships lists were kept but all adherents knew their lineage. (Gardner claimed to be brought into the craft by Old Mary. Old Mary was not her real name.)

Bardic orders are completely secretive and no membership records are kept. A Master Bard may have one or two students at one time. Most of what they do is through divine inspiration. Joshua's claims are complete rubbish because the honors he claims have no way to be determined or validated.

Since you have come back after suspension under the sockpuppet The Great, yes, you will be banned from this service. That is unfourtunate.

Oh, some things about your last post.

1) 2065 - The United Earth Space Probe Agency is formed in the aftermath of WW III. Under it's command, the spacecraft SS Valiant is launched. This is later destroyed when contact with the energy barrier at the edge of the galaxy is encountered.

http://www.startrek.com/database_article/ss-valiant

2) 2087 - United Federation of Planets is formed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Federation_of_Planets

Vitally important my ass.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13459 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  18:47:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Great

I know I will get banned...
You're right! Good work!!

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  20:03:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been here long enough to know three things.
I'm better off deleting they reply I just did.
and two other things, that I won't bother to post.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2011 :  11:34:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Valiant Dancer......

Because of Kil's highly appropiate banning of the loonie, Flanagan etc., I assume that this will not be considered "hijacking" of a thread that had no merit anyway so......

If you care to respond, I would like to ask you a question. It assumes that the subject matter is somewhat similar to the crazycrap that the Flanagan youngster has been babbling about for some time here on SFN.

What is a neo-pagan?
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2011 :  12:06:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Valiant Dancer......

Because of Kil's highly appropiate banning of the loonie, Flanagan etc., I assume that this will not be considered "hijacking" of a thread that had no merit anyway so......

If you care to respond, I would like to ask you a question. It assumes that the subject matter is somewhat similar to the crazycrap that the Flanagan youngster has been babbling about for some time here on SFN.

What is a neo-pagan?


OK. Paganism is the old religions. Christians did a pretty good job in destroying them where now only archeologists can tell us what they were like.

Neo-paganism are the new age religions that exist today. Wicca is a sub-classification. There are also Heathenism, Asatru, bardic traditions, and other non-Wiccan religions under the neo-pagan umbrella.

The clue here is that these religions are under 200 years old. Wicca got it's start in the 1880's with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn which borrowed sections of ritual from the Jewish ceremonial magic/ritual Kabbalah. Heathenism has been around for under 200 years and tend to be home grown mixing HooDoo or Voodun elements. Asatru is the attempt to restart the Norse Mythology. Bardic Traditions add a layer of mysticism to storytelling.

And then there are the fluffy bunny neo-pagans. They are the people who claim great spiritual knowledge gained "on the Astral". They are legends in their own minds.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2011 :  15:17:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Valiant Dancer.....

From Wiki.....

Theology
Main article: Wiccan views of divinity

Altar statues of the Horned God and Mother Goddess as crafted by Bel Bucca, and owned by the 'Mother of Wicca', Doreen Valiente.Although Wiccan views on theology are numerous and varied, the vast majority of Wiccans venerate both a god and a goddess. These two deities are variously understood through the frameworks of pantheism (as being dual aspects of a single godhead), duotheism (as being two polar opposites), hard polytheism (being two distinct deities in a larger pantheon which includes other pagan gods) or soft polytheism (being composed of many lesser deities). In some pantheistic and duotheistic conceptions, deities from diverse cultures may be seen as aspects of the Goddess or God.[6] However, there are also other theological viewpoints to be found within the Craft, including monotheism, the concept that there is just one deity, which is seen by some, such as Dianic Wiccans, as being the Goddess, whilst by others, like the Church and School of Wicca, as instead being genderless. There are other Wiccans who are atheists or agnostics, not believing in any actual deity, but instead viewing the gods as psychological archtypes of the human mind which can be evoked and interacted with.
Do you, personally, take issue with any, part, or all of this précis of the theological essence of the religion of Wicca? If you do indeed recognize or worship a God or gods; is it in the same spirit and with the same intent that those who have faith in the Abrahamic religions worship their God?

I certainly have no quarrel with nor do I wish to criticize your views of gods or goddesses however much I may disagree; but I would appreciate help in gaining a better understanding of the differences between Wicca and, say, Christianity or Islam - at least as far as belief in the supernatural is concerned.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2011 :  15:40:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Valiant Dancer.....

From Wiki.....

Theology
Main article: Wiccan views of divinity

Altar statues of the Horned God and Mother Goddess as crafted by Bel Bucca, and owned by the 'Mother of Wicca', Doreen Valiente.Although Wiccan views on theology are numerous and varied, the vast majority of Wiccans venerate both a god and a goddess. These two deities are variously understood through the frameworks of pantheism (as being dual aspects of a single godhead), duotheism (as being two polar opposites), hard polytheism (being two distinct deities in a larger pantheon which includes other pagan gods) or soft polytheism (being composed of many lesser deities). In some pantheistic and duotheistic conceptions, deities from diverse cultures may be seen as aspects of the Goddess or God.[6] However, there are also other theological viewpoints to be found within the Craft, including monotheism, the concept that there is just one deity, which is seen by some, such as Dianic Wiccans, as being the Goddess, whilst by others, like the Church and School of Wicca, as instead being genderless. There are other Wiccans who are atheists or agnostics, not believing in any actual deity, but instead viewing the gods as psychological archtypes of the human mind which can be evoked and interacted with.
Do you, personally, take issue with any, part, or all of this précis of the theological essence of the religion of Wicca? If you do indeed recognize or worship a God or gods; is it in the same spirit and with the same intent that those who have faith in the Abrahamic religions worship their God?

I certainly have no quarrel with nor do I wish to criticize your views of gods or goddesses however much I may disagree; but I would appreciate help in gaining a better understanding of the differences between Wicca and, say, Christianity or Islam - at least as far as belief in the supernatural is concerned.


Doreen Valiente formed Wicca with Gerald Gardner. The concepts contained with the description are accurate for the community. I am a member of one of the sub-sects of the precursor of the Church and School of Wicca. Believing in a genderless creative spirit with a slightly different intent than the Abrahamic God(s). Using the God(dess) names as psychological archetypes of the human mind to be strived towards. Where directed external change is only possible through internal change. Where introspection reveals where the practioner needs improvement. Abrahamic God(s) are hands on-sy. Wiccan Dieties are a "we'll help you change yourself but it will take hard work" hands-off-fy the physical world.

It also stresses trusting feelings. Where something seems a little off or feels "wrong" additional scrutiny is warranted. Slowing any process to take a closer look is encouraged.

There are non-core beliefs about the supernatural (such as ghosts) which finds it's roots in the American Spiritualist movement of the early 1800's. One of the US's exports to England (as evidenced by one Harry H. Price who studied the Borley Rectory in Sussex, England.).

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2011 :  19:17:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Valiant Dancer.....

I am a member of one of the sub-sects of the precursor of the Church and School of Wicca. Believing in a genderless creative spirit with a slightly different intent than the Abrahamic God(s).
Do you feel that your belief in a supernatural spirit is in any way conflictive with the precepts of Critical Thinking -- which usually (as I understand them) require substantial evidence for claims of fact?

Again, please do not misunderstand my intent. I do not mean to criticize you in any way, and you certainly have every right to believe anything you care to. You apparently are neither atheistic nor agnostic. You have a faith and a belief that there is a "Spirit" which actually has existence in fact, and is neither a fantasy or a figment of imagination.

This forum (SFN)strongly emphasizes the value of practicing Critical Thinking. You are a long-time member of SFN and I have read many of your posts - all of which are, without exception; sensible, logical, informed, well written, and in no way suggestive of a person with supernatural beliefs. I guess I am experiencing a episode of cognitive dissonance in attempting to square your obvious high level of intelligence and erudition with your belief in a supernatural deity.

I have never seen any evidence of any kind that proved, demonstrated or even suggested that supernatural deities exist. Therefore, it is my strongly held opinion that no god or gods actually do exist in fact. Could you explain your faith in a manner that is consistent with the precepts of Critical Thinking?

Wiki defines Critical Thinking thus:
"Critical thinking clarifies goals, examines assumptions, discerns hidden values, evaluates evidence, accomplishes actions, and assesses conclusions."


Is it your belief that there is evidence for the existence of the creative spirit that you believe in? Could you describe that evidence?

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2011 :  19:54:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Valiant Dancer.....

I am a member of one of the sub-sects of the precursor of the Church and School of Wicca. Believing in a genderless creative spirit with a slightly different intent than the Abrahamic God(s).
Do you feel that your belief in a supernatural spirit is in any way conflictive with the precepts of Critical Thinking -- which usually (as I understand them) require substantial evidence for claims of fact?

Again, please do not misunderstand my intent. I do not mean to criticize you in any way, and you certainly have every right to believe anything you care to. You apparently are neither atheistic nor agnostic. You have a faith and a belief that there is a "Spirit" which actually has existence in fact, and is neither a fantasy or a figment of imagination.

This forum (SFN)strongly emphasizes the value of practicing Critical Thinking. You are a long-time member of SFN and I have read many of your posts - all of which are, without exception; sensible, logical, informed, well written, and in no way suggestive of a person with supernatural beliefs. I guess I am experiencing a episode of cognitive dissonance in attempting to square your obvious high level of intelligence and erudition with your belief in a supernatural deity.

I have never seen any evidence of any kind that proved, demonstrated or even suggested that supernatural deities exist. Therefore, it is my strongly held opinion that no god or gods actually do exist in fact. Could you explain your faith in a manner that is consistent with the precepts of Critical Thinking?

Wiki defines Critical Thinking thus:
"Critical thinking clarifies goals, examines assumptions, discerns hidden values, evaluates evidence, accomplishes actions, and assesses conclusions."


Is it your belief that there is evidence for the existence of the creative spirit that you believe in? Could you describe that evidence?




This is an area that I keep completely seperate. It is part of my spirituality and, since it is belief based and not evidence based, is conflictive with critical thinking should it be applied to my spirituality. I find my spirituality to be a technique for self improvement and introspection not a means to examine the outside world. This is how I hold them seperate.

It is my belief that there is exactly zero evidence for the creative spirit I believe in. Since I use it as a means of self improvement and not for more practical things like.... drive a car, it is mostly harmless. Since I do not inflict it on others, it is societally harmless. Most Wiccans believe that science is the best way to examine the outside world. They are not adverse to medical techniques and treatments discovered by science and understand that science is a journey, not a destination.

I can explain my faith by pointing out the books within the main concepts of the religion are discussed. I can prove the religion exists. I cannot prove that the diety worshipped exists. My spiritual path is right for me. Your spiritual path is right for you.

I believe that the cognitave dissonance is amplified by my following a minority "new age" religion. I think if you understand that my spirituality is internal and can be set aside for matters concerning the outside world, you might have less of a cognative dissonance.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Kaka
Sock Puppet

1 Post

Posted - 11/12/2011 :  20:01:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Kaka a Private Message  Reply with Quote
[Sock puppetry deleted - Dave W.]
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aphrodites child
Sock Puppet/Spammer

1 Post

Posted - 11/13/2011 :  12:40:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send aphrodites child a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sock puppetry and spam deleted. - Kil
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