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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2011 :  10:34:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by moakley

Originally posted by teched246

This movie was released 5 years prior to 9/11. We have a dialogue about the first World Trade Center bombings being the work of goverment agencies, and immediatley after the characters speak of another false flag terrorist attack that would claim the lives of 4000 american citizens and would be blamed on muslims. I cannot imagine the obstinate mind that see's only coincidence.
Aren't you selling Tom Clancy short here when it comes to credit. I believe it was his 1994 book Debt of Honor where he had some pilot with a grudge fly a plane into congress. How tough is it to change the villain, target, and the body count.


Yeah. In the movie, the target was actually to be downtown Niagara Falls. Not exactly the World Trade Center. Plus the plot was foiled. Details, details...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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alienist
Skeptic Friend

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2011 :  14:53:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send alienist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chefcrsh

Originally posted by Kil
Whoa! Slow down there cowboy! The most monumental event in recorded history? Not even close.


There seems nothing better to discuss here, and this is a pretty good, but seems impossible (due to individual values) to nail down. So what would you say is the most monumental event in recorded history?


I would say the most monumental events in medicine were the germ theory, vaccines, antibiotics and sterile surgery technique. In a way, penicillin was the best psychiatric drug in that it emptied out a lot of asylums by reversing the effects of tertiary syphilis

The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2011 :  18:33:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
chefcrsh....

Initially addressed to Kil

So what would you say is the most monumental event in recorded history?
Because of my respect for your perspicacity, insight, and erudition; I would appreciate hearing your choice for "the most monumental event in recorded history".

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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2011 :  21:42:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

chefcrsh....

Initially addressed to Kil

So what would you say is the most monumental event in recorded history?
Because of my respect for your perspicacity, insight, and erudition; I would appreciate hearing your choice for "the most monumental event in recorded history".




Well first, I doubt I am sufficiently knowledgable in all of recorded history to know of every possible monumental event. Then there is of course the question of perspective. I would imagine that monumental events have different weight depending on ones location, mindset, perhaps social class gender or race. Further there is the ephemeral nature of memory, and like choosing my favorite color, song, book or film, I can easily imagine that just after I have chosen one, I will be reminded of another that I consider just as, or even more deserving of the title. So, at the risk of disappointing, I find myself at a complete loss to answer that question.

If I could step outside of recorded history (I know, unfair) one of my personal top events (also unfair prevarication, I agree) was captured in Richard Wrangham's excellent thesis, "Catching Fire, How cooking made us Human."

Edited by - chefcrsh on 11/25/2011 21:47:18
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  02:23:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
chefcrsh.....

I find myself at a complete loss to answer that question.
I am disappointed. I was hoping for insight such as you possibly sought from Kil However, it is refreshing to hear again of your involvement and interest in cooking
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  02:42:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Get used to disappointment." -- The Dread Pirate Roberts
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teched246
Skeptic Friend

123 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  09:25:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send teched246 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck



It is overwhelmingly probable that both of the attacks on the World Trade Center were carried out by Muslim fundamentalist foreign terrorists.


...so the 1% told us.

"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche
Edited by - teched246 on 12/03/2011 09:26:25
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  09:42:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by teched246

...so the 1% told us.
Wow.

You really think that the only reason anyone believes the terrorist theory is that they've been lied to by rich people?

That's beyond delusional.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  09:50:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by teched246

Originally posted by bngbuck



It is overwhelmingly probable that both of the attacks on the World Trade Center were carried out by Muslim fundamentalist foreign terrorists.


...so the 1% told us.
Well certainly most of the people who investigated were not the 1%. That is a total non sequitur. That you would even try for silly appeal like that, just because there are protests about the distribution of wealth in this country going on right now shows that you pretty much have nothing. But please do explain to me, very slowly so even an idiot can understand, exactly how the war served those earning in the top 1% of Americans?

If you mean that Dick Cheney and many in the Bush administration were rich is falsely confusing correlation with causation.

And no offense, but bringing up an adventure movie and the 1% are probably the lamest arguments for 9/11 being an inside job that I have ever heard.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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teched246
Skeptic Friend

123 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  10:41:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send teched246 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well certainly most of the people who investigated were not the 1%. That is a total non sequitur. That you would even try for silly appeal like that, just because there are protests about the distribution of wealth in this country going on right now shows that you pretty much have nothing. But please do explain to me, very slowly so even an idiot can understand, exactly how the war served those earning in the top 1% of Americans?

If you mean that Dick Cheney and many in the Bush administration were rich is falsely confusing correlation with causation.

And no offense, but bringing up an adventure movie and the 1% are probably the lamest arguments for 9/11 being an inside job that I have ever heard.




Grass isn't green...the sky isn't blue...industrialist and corporate interests aren't being met out by the U.S.A's imperialistic conquest of the Middle East and Coastal Africa...lemons aren't yellow...elton john isn't gay...our politicians are not figureheads for zionism...oranges aren't orange...elvis isn't dead...corporate money just magically falls out of the sky and lands in the pockets of our "leaders"....


"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche
Edited by - teched246 on 12/03/2011 10:42:01
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teched246
Skeptic Friend

123 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  10:51:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send teched246 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by teched246

...so the 1% told us.
Wow.

You really think that the only reason anyone believes the terrorist theory is that they've been lied to by rich people?



Well...yes. Who owns the big media corporations and, thus, controls the vast majority of the information we get to hear? Who began feeding the masses photo's and the life story of bin laden a mere 30 minutes after the planes hit?

"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche
Edited by - teched246 on 12/03/2011 10:52:20
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  10:57:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
teched246:
...industrialist and corporate interests aren't being met out by the U.S.A's imperialistic conquest of the Middle East and Coastal Africa...

Some may be making a profit, like Halaburton, but most aren't. Running up huge deficits by way of war does not serve most of the 1%. And again, you are confusing correlation with causation.

While it may seem obvious to you that 9/11 was an inside job because it led to a couple of wars that the neo-cons wanted, that doesn't make it so. And if anyone here is indulging in magical thinking, it's you, teched. If you want to play the leftist version of Glen Beck, be my guest. I'll take you as seriously as I take him.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  11:05:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
teched:
Who began feeding the masses photo's and the life story of bin laden a mere 30 minutes after the planes hit?

It was his MO. He was the most obvious suspect. Only he had the wherewithal to pull it off. So yeah. He was immediately suspected. There was nothing strange about the media reporting on those suspicions. "Feeding the masses" with the obvious. Duh!

No really. You are like a left version of Glen Beck in that you find meaning where non exists. Like adventure films. Do you have a blackboard too? Do you furiously connect the dots in a notebook?


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  13:13:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by teched246

Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by teched246

...so the 1% told us.
Wow.

You really think that the only reason anyone believes the terrorist theory is that they've been lied to by rich people?
Well...yes.
So you're saying it's impossible for anyone to take an honest look at the evidence and decide that the Truthers are full of crap.
Who owns the big media corporations and, thus, controls the vast majority of the information we get to hear? Who began feeding the masses photo's and the life story of bin laden a mere 30 minutes after the planes hit?
But that's irrelevant. Your "Well...yes" indicates that you think that everyone who might disagree with your assessment is beholden to the 1%. But "the vast majority" isn't "all." Your 1% comment is indicative only of your prejudice, and is not any sort of serious argument or rebuttal of the "official" story. "Who owns the big media corporations" is nothing but innuendo.

Here's a question for you: is bin Laden dead?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2011 :  16:30:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
teched246 I agree that the government has and does lie to us because that can be demonstrated with evidence where they have been caught on it but that evidence only applies to the instances when they have. "Was 9/11 an inside job?" is not supported by anything you presented. A Hollywood movie is not evidence. The Governments provable lies on other issues are not evidence that it was involved in the 9/11 attack either. Speculation and, not even the color of fruit are evidence that have any bearing on a truther's beliefs. It's not uncommon for people to believe in many things without evidence. Big foot, flying saucers, existence of Satin, it goes on and on are just more of the same things people choose to believe in, without any real evidence. It's something that humans are wired to do. It's a survival thing to take past experiences and patterns and apply then to our world. They are generally not detrimental but care should be taken that they don't become so. Brian Dunning on Skeptoid.com did a 12 minute podcast on this very topic about 6 months ago. Perhaps you and others might care to hear what he titled "Conspiracy Theorists Aren't Crazy".

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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