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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2012 :  10:10:44  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What is thought transference? Does it exist? I think does, in fact it happens all the time to me especially with those I am close. One think I do not believe that it has anything to do with the paranormal. Can the mind transfer thoughts to another?

[Moved to the General Skepticism folder - Dave W.]

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2012 :  10:19:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

What is thought transference? Does it exist? I think does, in fact it happens all the time to me especially with those I am close. One think I do not believe that it has anything to do with the paranormal. Can the mind transfer thoughts to another?
So what is thought transference if not telepathy? And what is telepathy if not esp or some other psi ability?

Obviously, we sometimes think the same thoughts in a given situation, if that's what you mean.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2012 :  12:59:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm
Can the mind transfer thoughts to another?
Sure, via one's body. Speaking, writing, and gesturing are all ways in which one brain may communicate feeling and ideas to another brain.

If you mean directly from one brain into another then, no, that's not possible.

Welcome back, Storm.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2012 :  13:17:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
it is good to be back. have you never had such an event happen to you? your thinking of something and then someonelse says something about your silent thoughts? god it happens all the time to me. i believe it is possible just not proven.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2012 :  15:05:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm
have you never had such an event happen to you? your thinking of something and then someonelse says something about your silent thoughts?
Oh, sure, that happens on occasion. Such coincidences can seem quite eerie.
god it happens all the time to me.
Probably not as often as you think. It's just that such occasions can be memorable.
i believe it is possible just not proven.
Possible how? It doesn't seem any more possible for a thought to pass from one brain to another than it would be for a person to pass through a solid wall from one room into another. Such an event would be a pretty astounding violation of all known physical laws. The evidence needed to entertain such a possibility would have to be very robust and convincing.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2012 :  19:02:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

What is thought transference? Does it exist?

Yes of course we transfer thought to each other al the time. The study is now called memetics. We transfer through speech for sure, and also through an array of non-verbal communications. These can be noises, expressions, movements and touch. They account for a lot of communication actually.

I have a wonderful dog companion who chooses to be mute except when he is in great distress. We communicate all the time with the slightest eye movements. It is so subtle that it may seem to an careless observer that we are using telepathy...but anyone who scrutinizes us will see the code and know that it is very simple indeed. We all use this same form of very subtle thought sharing (communication) any time we navigate through a crowded pedestrian area. There is never a need to speak to other walkers and we often don't look at their faces, but we usually know where they are planning on going and how we should shift to also move towards our destination unimpeded. It is a marvelous example of emergence. To borrow from Adam Smith, it may appear to an unknowing observer as if an invisible hand is guiding every persons - we know it is just subtle non verbal thought transfer.

Can the mind transfer thoughts to another?
If you mean directly then you are certainly talking about the paranormal. And there is no known or plausible mechanism for brains to do this. Plus it is nether necessary or sufficient. So other than and listed above the answer is no.
Edited by - chefcrsh on 01/28/2012 19:04:58
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2012 :  19:11:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a question for you. In all your recent posts you keep saying "I believe it is possible but just not proven" why add that? Unless you can lay out a reasoned proof of your beliefs they are worth nothing to discussion. I repeat Nothing. It is the most disingenuous kind of discourse to float out any sort of nonsense and claim you hold it on faith. Belief alone (blind faith) is the end of inquiry and discourse, and is a horrible way to transfer thoughts because it is demonstrative of a mind that is closed to challenging it's own beliefs. And it is a logically sound maxim to say that a closed mind can not have thought transferred to it.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2012 :  22:49:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By the way, Storm, did you know Tim Minchin wrote a song about you?


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2012 :  10:14:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

By the way, Storm, did you know Tim Minchin wrote a song about you?



Good one, from the vault . Perfectly appropriate and as they say in England "spot on". It addresses everything strom has posted since returning and more. A beautiful piece.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2012 :  10:37:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Believing in other people's bullshit methods (psychicfraud) of coning fools from their money is not harmless or victimless. It is criminal and should be prosecuted.



There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2012 :  13:05:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I believe thought transference is possible because of my experiences it does not seize my inquiry into its workings. In fact it enhances it, makes me think. Is it necessary for the brain to have this mechanism. imagine th benefits or not. What song? Am I missing you doggin me H. Humbert.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2012 :  14:41:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

While I believe thought transference is possible because of my experiences it does not seize my inquiry into its workings. In fact it enhances it, makes me think. Is it necessary for the brain to have this mechanism. imagine th benefits or not. What song? Am I missing you doggin me H. Humbert.
He linked to the song. Just click on the blue part of the sentence. It's called "Storm" by Tim Minchin.

Here's the full link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U





Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  09:31:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So had an unusual occurence last night. Hot flashes started not relly flashes but my huband and i were watching Vertigo by Alfred Hitchcock.. he was on the computer..i was nuggling next to him and the open credits were on.. now i have seen the movie many times and I did not remember such a artsy opening... I even said to myself " I do not remeber such a wild opening." not two seconds later my husband says and i quote "I don't remember such a wild opening." my words. my husband and i have many of these experiences. Coincedence sure you could chalk it up to that i do not think so. occams razor sometimes just an excuse for what we cannot explain. A cop out.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  10:37:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

So had an unusual occurence last night. Hot flashes started not relly flashes but my huband and i were watching Vertigo by Alfred Hitchcock.. he was on the computer..i was nuggling next to him and the open credits were on.. now i have seen the movie many times and I did not remember such a artsy opening... I even said to myself " I do not remeber such a wild opening." not two seconds later my husband says and i quote "I don't remember such a wild opening." my words. my husband and i have many of these experiences. Coincedence sure you could chalk it up to that i do not think so. occams razor sometimes just an excuse for what we cannot explain. A cop out.
If you are given to believe as you do, nothing is a coincidence. And lets face it, it's more fun to think that other forces or "energies" are at work. It's more exciting.

My brother believes that nothing is a coincidence or at the very least, it's hard to tell the difference. He says that the beliefs we create about the world is how the world operates. Here's a little snippet from an essay I wrote several years ago. True story.

From my brother’s point of view, my love of science is leading me away from the real truth of things, and therefore, into darkness. While my brother has opened himself up to a spiritual awakening that would [have made] George Harrison envious, I have taken the low road. I like to ask questions.

Critical thinking has no place in my brother’s world. Doubting, according to my brother, prevents me from experiencing the world as it really is. He says that I experience the world as I believe it to be, but unlike him, I am unable to control the world. He controls the world by controlling his beliefs about it. My brother’s world is void and formless until belief gives it shape and substance. Belief is everything.

It has occurred to me that this is the perfect belief system for a criminal. For example, a person could hypothetically create a belief that it’s okay to rob a bank. Doubting is for, well, we less evolved skeptical types. Science only exists to describe what scientists, and those of us who listen to them, already believe. We create our observations.

“I can make cold water hot by changing my belief about it,” he said to me. “I have done that.”

“Can you do that for me?” I ask. “I mean, make cold water hot? Without touching it? No tricks?”

“Something doesn’t feel right about doing that,” he answered.

“Aww, come on now. You tell me these stories. Why should I believe you if you aren’t willing to demonstrate your ability?”

“You’re not ready.”

“Geez, not ready? Wouldn’t it be better to show that stuff to a skeptic? If you want to change the world wouldn’t it be best to let the world in on what you can do? Over a million dollars is waiting for anyone who can demonstrate the kind of ability that you claim to have. All you would have to do is make the cold water hot!”

“Hmm, it just doesn’t feel right. People have to come to this on their own.”

“Why don’t you create a belief that we are ready?”

I learned later that the water he caused to turn hot was running from a shower faucet in a hotel he was visiting. In my brother’s world, a shower that takes a while to heat up becomes a supernatural event. Honest!


http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/showquestion.asp?faq=2&fldAuto=26

My brother is convinced that the water becoming hot was no coincidence, because he wanted hot water. And it did turn hot. He also rejects Occam's Razor.

Now I'm not saying that the two stories, yours and my brothers are the same. I'm suggesting that people believe what they want to believe, and without some method for evaluating those beliefs, anything goes.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  14:58:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
had another thought transference... don't want to say psychic connection. I am at work now and I was looking at a local advertisement the Coffee news... I picked it up and said this is the old one.. they change them every week... i said to myself I wonder when they come in to change and not 5 seconds later the guy walked in with the new ones... coincidenc... of course you will say...having those hot flashes...corrulation?
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  17:52:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Count the misses. Actually to do a proper study you will have to engage a disinterested third party who counts all the hits and misses i a rather large sampling without you knowing. Then you need to do a statistical analysis that shows a far greater than chance outcome for your hypothesis. I am very confident that any properly controlled study will turn up a no better than chance correlation...what to know why? Because every other study has, and you have shown in many ways that you are not any more special (excluding perhaps in the "small bus" way) than any other believer in any of the other nonsense that our species is so prone to fool themselves with. Your babbling on here (and elsewhere) about your belief is just boring poppycock.

"The Scientific Method is nothing more than a system of rules to keep us from lying to each other." –-Ken Norris (Addendum: "and to ourselves" -- Sculptingman).
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool." -- Richard Feynman

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