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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 23:22:57 [Permalink]
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One thing to bear in mind in the context of the recent events is how deeply James Randi is hated by his enemies. And "enemies" is not too strong a word.
I can't think of anyone who has injured or destroyed the careers of scam artists to the extent Randi has. It's hard to quantify such hatred, of course, but from many comments from woosters that I've read, I think Randi has made genuine enemies. The quality of the spewed venom is amazing.
Over the years, and in ways that even Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens rarely approached, Randi got under the skin of his enemies. And in his case, they are mostly really enemies not opponents. Because Randi didn't just make intellectual enemies like Dawkins and Hitch and others have largely done -- in effect Randi created deep personal enmities by reducing or ruining the income of psychics and faith-healers and spoon-bending frauds.
Nothing makes enemies like the loss of money.
Randi's enemies will make everything they can of the recent trouble, from the long acknowledged gay angle to the ID fraud itself -- and then throw in total bullshit just for extras. (For instance, I'll bet there will be, or already have been, charges that the $50,000 cash and the one million dollar surety bond for securing Pena's release from jail is from money set aside for Randi's Million Dollar Challenge.)
It's said that one is judged by the quality of one's enemies. If this is so, in spite whatever else has happened in his life, James Randi will be judged as a man of outstanding quality. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2012 : 07:56:58 [Permalink]
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Hold on a mintute... how could I have missed this post... So Randi is a fraud as in a certain respect... not about being gay.. but hidining the info on his beau...what else does Randi hide... I remember when I moved down to florida and my husband and i were at a Mufon meeting... he was in the audience doing his 100000000 challenge..hmmm where did he come up with that number. So does this mean all mediums are not frauds God i love this post!!!! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 09:50:57 [Permalink]
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Well, Storm, considering the kinds of random New Agey anti-science crap you defend, I think it's time that you produced evidence of any fraud in Randi's debunking work. Only then may you dare to accuse him.
You can't just go calling blanket fraud on Randi simply because he didn't rat out his lover, even if (and it's not clear) the law required him to do so.
With all the frauds that James Randi has exposed and disproved over the years, his legacy will outlast this mistake of his. He did nothing so nasty as Silvia Browne did when she told a bereaved parent that her child was dead, when all along the child was alive. Randi's worked to stop Browne, or to at least expose her scam. But some people are so brain-dead, they go on defending the REAL frauds forever.
Evidence: Put up, or shut up! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/24/2012 09:51:52 |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 10:32:05 [Permalink]
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I will never shut up! It is my right to ask, to think, etc. But....if the tables were turned... you would be the first to call that peron especially if they had to do with new age or pseudoscience a fraud!!!! I don't beleive in new age stuff...i do not call it that. You should know from my post i amnot a new ager. Just because i have witnessed certain phenomena that is bundled with new age does not mean I beleive in it. I am not a superstitious person.
Is his million dollar challenge a fraud? No. I was just thinking of him recently too. i wonder if he would ever do a serious investigation on a haunted house. not a one yell at match to the ghosts. But an actual investigation he would conduct. Live in a so call haunted place... put cameras out. for more than one day maybe a year
It does make you wonder though... if he was fraudelent about such a serious thing... why not anything else? |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 10:56:51 [Permalink]
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Storm:
i wonder if he would ever do a serious investigation on a haunted house. not a one yell at match to the ghosts. But an actual investigation he would conduct. Live in a so call haunted place... put cameras out. for more than one day maybe a year It does make you wonder though... if he was fraudelent about such a serious thing... why not anything else? |
He may have known about a fraud. It was his partner. His partner has pleaded guilty. The situation is sad. The guy might be deported. In fact it's likely.
You suggesting that Randi himself committed fraud so why not anything else is just is precisely what we would expect from enemies of his. Joe Nickell has investigated many "hauntings" and even solved some of them. Why should Randi do what an expert in the field is already doing? To prove something to you?
Helping to hide a the truth about his lover and the work he does is unrelated. Yeah. It's a bit of a scandal, but the argument that hiding the truth about a life partner could mean anything he does might be a fraudulent (something he hasn't been charged with) is a specious argument. And it's beneath you, Storm.
Randi isn't a perfect. He's human. And we are talking about his life partner here. Not an investigation into the practices of Peter Popoff or Uri Geller.
Ever get a speeding ticket? Should we now consider the possibility that you are a serial speeder? Or that you regularly break other laws because you broke that one? Using your logic, I'd say that there's a chance that you speed whenever you think no one is looking...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 11:26:17 [Permalink]
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I do not speed. And when it comes down to it it has nothing to do with his lover but his actions. No we are not talking uri Geller, etc but if the tables were turned and not in a seance you would be on that person. Joe Nikkel did investigations for a Day!!!!!! that is my point in these haunting claims. People like Randi like Joe go into houses for one day and expect things to appear. Places are not haunted people are is that not quote from joe. I read his book. he investigated these places for one day. thats like thes so called ghost hunters on t.v. If a ghost does not appear on command it does not exist.
Sorry if his lover is going to get deported. it makes you wonder though how much Randi knew. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 11:36:59 [Permalink]
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Storm:
Sorry if his lover is going to get deported. it makes you wonder though how much Randi knew. |
He probably knew everything. But I have to tell you. When we get the goods on one of your people, it isn't about their lovers. It's about suppressing evidence related to cases. It's about lying, related to cases. It's about having no evidence, related to cases. If you can find where Randi did that, then yes, his integrity would be called into question about what he does. Go for it.
And comparing Joe Nickell to the ghost hunters is silly. When did they ever solve a case? When did they ever figure out where the footsteps were coming from? Joe does much more than sit around waiting for a ghost to appear. He tries to figure out what is causing people to think there is a ghost there, and he doesn't exclude ghosts as a possible answer. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 11:43:43 [Permalink]
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And you do not get analogies either. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 11:54:36 [Permalink]
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| I get the analogy. but as I said if the tables were turned you would all have a field day with the medium and his/her lover. Joe doesn't exclude ghosts? he believes in them? People are haunted not places. Is that not what he says? |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 12:19:03 [Permalink]
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Storm:
as I said if the tables were turned you would all have a field day with the medium and his/her lover. |
Is that your hunch or do you have any evidence to support that claim? Any evidence at all will do. Because all I see right now coming from you is sour grapes.
And yeah. Nickell doesn't exclude ghosts as a possible cause.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/afterlife/ghost-buster5.htm
| The scientific method, on the other hand, does not have a pre-ordained solution to paranormal problems. Ghost hunters like Joe Nickell are aiming neither to legitimate nor to debunk every ghost case they find. Instead, a paranormal investigator examines the evidence itself and then tries to find out where that evidence leads. In Joe Nickell's case, it has never led to an actual ghost. |
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 12:47:17 [Permalink]
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| Yeah Joe caught ghosts but they were people doing the antics. Actually in his report he did nothing but explain what ghost phenomena was do to. Inapt memory, pysichal illusions, power of sugestion...how is that catching ghosts. Joe Nikkel believes it is all in the mind. Haunted people Kil not!!! haunted places. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 12:54:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
Yeah Joe caught ghosts but they were people doing the antics. Actually in his report he did nothing but explain what ghost phenomena was do to. Inapt memory, pysichal illusions, power of sugestion...how is that catching ghosts. Joe Nikkel believes it is all in the mind. Haunted people Kil not!!! haunted places.
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Like Joe, the people you hold in the highest esteem also haven't found a ghost. And the people you hold in the highest esteem are those who already believe.
This thread is just dripping with your bias. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 12:54:16 [Permalink]
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how ghost busters work. I agree with the article save the joe nickel part. The one part of the article I read through csicop about joe was when there were reported hauntings in a particular inn one of the staff changed the pictures around. But she changed the pictures around AFTER the already reported hauntings. Joe chalked it all up to her.
"As I brought up the subject of haunting, the night clerk told us a secret: Sometimes, she confided, because she found the housekeeping staff so superstitious and credulous, she would slip upstairs at night and “turn the pictures” in Sarah’s Room just to “mess with” their minds.
"Once again, I had confirmed the value of on-site investigating over armchair debunking. I had caught another ghost, this time at the very beginning of a stay. I have to admit, I slept especially well that night."
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A difficult post
