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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  06:31:03  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I think this is pretty clever.

This statement from the article is so true:

Good fun. Right. Surely this won’t turn into a ridiculous, overblown political debate about the role of religion in society.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  06:42:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sigh, I really wish atheist groups would stop "helping" the cause. There are far better ways to make statements, there is nothing offensive about a team named The Saints.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 07/18/2012 06:42:57
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  07:48:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"We didn't name the team the Saints to make any sort of religious statement." So changing the name for one night shouldn't be seen as an attack against religion.

BPS, I don't see where anyone is claiming that the team's name is offensive.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  07:59:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm more impressed that an atheist group has the financial wherewithal to sponsor a minor league baseball team, if only for a night. Printing up professional-quality jerseys and putting up signage isn't cheap, and that goes along with whatever up-front financial commitment is required.
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  08:24:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am kind of surprised at your responses. I thought it was a fun way to get your message out. As a christian I am not offended, the St Paul Saints do not stand for anything christian.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  08:46:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I think the "statement" is "Your friendly neighborhood atheists like baseball, too." With a subtext of, "We're here, we're godless but can see the humor in all this, get used to us." Nobody's objecting to the Saints' usual name, just paying good money to change it for one day.

It's important -- maybe even for our survival -- for people to be aware that there are more than just a tiny, isolated number of freethinkers around. In fact, we're growing toward a critical mass in the US. I think Minnesota/American Atheists are doing this just right. This makes their point without any rudeness or casting themselves as persecuted victims (though that might be justifiable, it's not usually the best PR, a point often clueless evangelical Christians could learn).

How any of this good fun could be considered offensive is beyond me. And in fact, it seems their community has generally taken it with calm acceptance. (Maybe "renting" the team makes the whole operation seen capitalistic and "American"? As well as inherently temporary.)

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/18/2012 08:48:20
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  09:10:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced

I am kind of surprised at your responses.
I'm only surprised at BPS's response.
I thought it was a fun way to get your message out.
Ditto.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  10:43:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Convinced

I am kind of surprised at your responses.
I'm only surprised at BPS's response.
I thought it was a fun way to get your message out.
Ditto.


Well I am sure there are offended Catholics, just not here. It is clearly an attack on religion, even if it is intended to be light hearted. I just think it is in bad taste and does not help the 'message'. Subverting ideas is their job not ours.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  10:54:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The closest I can think of is when the YECs used the Simthsonian movie debacle to promote their nonsense as science. If the roles were reversed at "Darwin" stadium and all references to Darwin were hidden and replaced by Papal heads and bible verses, I think the reactions around here would not be so "fun".

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 07/18/2012 10:56:01
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  11:44:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

The closest I can think of is when the YECs used the Simthsonian movie debacle to promote their nonsense as science.
The response to that was as harsh as it was because the YECs were being dishonest.
If the roles were reversed at "Darwin" stadium and all references to Darwin were hidden and replaced by Papal heads and bible verses, I think the reactions around here would not be so "fun".
It would get a "meh" from me because it'd only be analogously funny if they found a saint named Barwin or Carwin or Farwin (etc). It's a private venue, after all, they can remove all references to Darwin and replace 'em with something else anytime they want, temporarily or permanently. It'll only cause a big uproar if they lie about their motivations or otherwise seek to deceive their customers.

And Darwin, of course, isn't a saint. Not even to atheists.

Also:
Subverting ideas is their job not ours.
The team manager basically said that the team name is not an idea which could be subverted. The name wasn't intended to be a religious message, and it's impossible for us to corrupt non-existent messages.

Also, some people will find offense at anything (just like they'll decide for themselves that the team name is intended to be a religious message), so it is impossible for the atheist movement to not subvert any ideas: other people will claim we did, even when we don't. So yes, somebody will claim that "St. Paul Saints" is a sacred religious message that "Mr. Paul Ain'ts" subverts, but they'll either be lying or lied to, and if we spend a lot of time worrying about how our words and deeds will be twisted to make us look bad, we'd get nothing else done. The criticism, "you shouldn't say that because it'll be easily quote-mined," is similar in that way.

On the other hand, I've been opposed to "Darwin fish" for a long time, now, specifically because they subvert a religious message in a way that doesn't even make sense.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  11:48:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Well I am sure there are offended Catholics, just not here. It is clearly an attack on religion, even if it is intended to be light hearted. I just think it is in bad taste and does not help the 'message'. Subverting ideas is their job not ours.
Religious people often have a remarkably thin skin when it comes to being "offended." From reactions to the mildest of outdoor billboards posted by atheists, it's clear that many take offense with the mere fact that atheists are alive, exist amongst them, and are so brazen as to announce those facts.

Personally, I say fuck their phony outraged "offense". Shove it where the sun doth not gleam, along with their sense of special privilege and their fake persecution complex.

I also say to such easily offended parties that they have every right to feel offended by the inoffensive and to express those raw feelings. In fact, I encourage them to continue to be loudly offended, because such reactions make fair observers realize how close-mindedly bigoted their faith is.

But generally, St. Paul Christians didn't seem to react that way at all. They must be a little wiser than their brethren elsewhere, and somewhat better citizens.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/18/2012 22:58:58
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2012 :  00:17:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At least they didn't call them the "Dingalings"!


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2012 :  00:38:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

At least they didn't call them the "Dingalings"!
Stupid non-dingaling bastards.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2012 :  01:51:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Religious people often have a remarkably thin skin when it comes to being "offended."



Same could be said about atheists. This board seems like it's mission statement is to find new things every week to be shocked and appalled by.

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2012 :  02:26:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Originally posted by HalfMooner

Religious people often have a remarkably thin skin when it comes to being "offended."



Same could be said about atheists. This board seems like it's mission statement is to find new things every week to be shocked and appalled by.
Got any examples?

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2012 :  03:54:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm surprised you haven't noticed it, since almost every serious topic has some example of aghast, reactionary, liberals expressing disbelief at some truly terrible person/thing in the world. But it's more likely you choose not to notice, therefore me giving examples is only going to lead to you dismissing every case with some kind of ad hoc special pleading.

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