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 CMI- Atheism, no objective morality
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2012 :  04:58:28  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep, those clowns are at it again.

Hence, below is my reply, whether it gets published or not:
Sorry but when it comes to "subjective morality", it is theists who take the cake, not atheists.

You people have no problem with your god ordering the deaths of pregnant women and babies but when a doctor does it nowadays {ie. abortion} you people all of a sudden say that it's wrong.

Why? The only difference is in who is doing the deed. That is the very definition of "subjective". If something was "objectively" wrong, then it would be wrong no matter who did it, a doctor or god.

Ironically, at the end of the article, you said this:
"PS. I just came across this, an independent source that backs up what I have said, that evolution (‘science’) provides no basis for objective morality and in fact undermines it: Consternation over Ben Carson, Evolution, and Morality."

In reality, it's your alleged god's behavior as portrayed in your own bible that shoots down the idea of objective morality!

Even more amusing, is that this is nothing but an "Argument from consequences of belief" fallacy in the first place! Whether atheism does or does not give a set of "objective moral code" has nothing to do with whether it's actually the correct view or not.

Just an emotional manipulating game you're doing.

By the way, here is an New Scientist article you may want to read:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13696-evolution-myths-accepting-evolution-undermines-morality.html

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2012 :  00:13:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, there reply to me is [ur;="http://creation.com/atheism-no-objective-morality"]up[/url]. \Just read on down in the blue zone till you see my name. Basically, he accepts that it's subjective morality, but he just refuses to call it for what it is. Double standard all the way. God can do whatever the fuck he wants and it's still "moral" somehow. He does things that we can't, yet he is still somehow the moral standard?

Don Batten responds:

"The only difference is in who is doing the deed."

Hmmm... and there is no difference between God, the creator of the everything, including life (and us) and man, who is a creature made by God? It is a huge difference! God has the right to take life; man does not.

God can take life when it is a matter of dealing with sin, for example. There is a corporate aspect to things that is inescapable. If you live in Canada and the Canadian government decides to go to war, then you are at war, like it or not. You might even be an innocent casualty of that war. Likewise when God's judgment falls on a nation it falls on everyone.

We should all heed the warnings provided that God's judgment will eventually fall on all who continue to rebel against their Creator.

God has clearly decreed that taking human life for our own convenience is sin. Abortion is clearly such a sin. There is nothing subjective about the principle; killing an inocent baby in its mother's womb. See Human life Q&A

You accuse me of "Argument from consequences of belief" fallacy, but nowhere did I say or imply that because evolutionism provides no basis for objective morality that therefore evolution is false. Even Richard Dawkins agrees that evolution provides no basis for morality, but he still believes in evolution.

"Just an emotional manipulating game you're doing". Your comments sound very emotional. :-)

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2012 :  12:18:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So... Might makes right. That's the core of his argument?

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2012 :  12:51:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

So... Might makes right. That's the core of his argument?


I think it's closer to Bill Cosby's: "I brought you into this world, I can take you out".

Nevertheless, it's amazing that they can't see that they're actually endorsing subjective reality.


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Go to Top of Page

Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2012 :  16:02:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In a way, he submits like Job: YHWH tells him he can do whatever he wants, even evil, and Job cannot do a damn thing about it.

Like Job, he hopes he will get a present if he abases himself sufficiently. Hardly a "moral" nor ethical standing.

--J.D.

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  18:58:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Exactly. What gets me is just how many of those people go for that! How bad is the self-induced brainwashing that one has to totally not get that?

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Go to Top of Page

Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  19:17:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ask a suicide bomber who died so Osama Bin Laden could have porn.

--J.D.

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
Go to Top of Page

Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  10:22:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Doctor X

In a way, he submits like Job: YHWH tells him he can do whatever he wants, even evil, and Job cannot do a damn thing about it.

Like Job, he hopes he will get a present if he abases himself sufficiently.
Would you agree that this sounds a lot like battered spouse syndrome?


Hardly a "moral" nor ethical standing.
More like a (pathological) psychological condition.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Go to Top of Page

Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  14:12:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Would you agree that this sounds a lot like battered spouse syndrome?


Absolutely. Thought, to be fair, one really cannot read back into the past current theology. What I mean by that is Job's cosmology is one of a heavenly council of the "sons of the gods" of which YHWH is supreme--in Job--and the satan is the one who prosecutes. YHWH is a king. Humans? They are just peasants. Try, as a common peasant, to march down to the palace and demand to argue with a king. See where it gets you. That is sort of the message.

I find it odd that Greek/Roman gods are criticized for their venality whilst YHWH is held up as some exemplar. One could never be "like YHWH," or El or Ba'al for that matter. Further, "do the right thing," and a king may still decide to squish you. This is the theology of enslavement.

Perhaps it is more honest: today you have people crediting a mythical being with EVERY good thing yet never blaming him for the BAD.

Tim Tebow: "I would like to blame My Lord and Savior for this loss! I mean . . . what the fuck?!"

--J.D.

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
Go to Top of Page
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