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 Faith healing killers get probation only
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  18:52:04  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, this is a travesty of justice is it not?

Russel and Brandi Bellew allowed 16-year-old to die from burst appendix infection rather than seek medical attention because of religious beliefs.


Even worse: The kid fucking agreed with them:
"The family, through their reliance on faith, ended up praying for his recovery," prosecutor Erik Hasselman said in court, adding that Sprout agreed with his parents' decision to not seek medical care. "It appeared that [Sprout] wanted to respect his faith and the manner in which he was brought up."

The family is part of the General Assembly and Church of the First Born, which doesn't believe in using modern medicine.

Sprout would have been cured had he received medical attention, police said.


Such is the power of religious brainwashing. When we look at people like Dan Marvin who himself has kids and also subscribes to that presuppositionalist bullshit which totally rejects reason and evidence as a valid way of thinking, I can only shudder.

I just hope that he's not that far gone himself.


And even more news: Within that story is a link to another such story:
RELATED: MAN WITH TYPE 1 DIABETES DEAD AT HANDS OF SPIRITUAL HEALER WHO URGED HIM TO STOP TAKING INSULIN, MOM SAYS

And to think that the religious believers are always complaining about how it's their rights that are being trampled on.

Hat tip to Abdul Alhazred

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

Edited by - the_ignored on 09/19/2012 18:57:08

On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  20:14:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At first it makes you angry to hear they only received 5 years probation. But most alternatives would see 6 kids going to foster homes. At least this way the family gets to stay together and the children are being monitored.

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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1461 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  20:18:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since the kid agreed, Darwin Award, eh?
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  22:18:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, why not give a ghoulish Darwin award to make fun of dead child who didn't know any better.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  22:34:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Yes, why not give a ghoulish Darwin award to make fun of dead child who didn't know any better.
Yes, of course, the problem is with the critics, and not with the criminal parents. Why, exactly, is it a good thing that this family stay together? So the parents get more chances to let more of their kids die? Who is paying to monitor these people 24/7/365 (a negligent death can occur within minutes), and why is that better than drawing more attention to this tragedy with a ghoulish Darwin award (poor taste has never been criminal)? I'm thinking it might be a good thing the kid died, because that absolutely prevents him from passing on the diseased religion to his kids. Is "no kids at all" better than "some number of kids indoctrinated with potentially deadly nonsense?"

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  23:46:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Yes, of course, the problem is with the critics, and not with the criminal parents.


False dichotomy. Crazy concept but I can have problems with Darwin awards and negligent parents simultaneously. (I have a gift)

Why, exactly, is it a good thing that this family stay together?


Ask anyone who's ever been split from their brothers and sisters and raised in a string of orphanages and foster homes.

Who is paying to monitor these people 24/7/365 (a negligent death can occur within minutes)


Probably tax payers. Also there's the deterrent of being on probation. Any further problems would definitely result in jail time. The idea of jail is a deterrent, right? Not a punishment?

why is that better than drawing more attention to this tragedy with a ghoulish Darwin award (poor taste has never been criminal)?


Highlighting poor taste doesn't mean I am labelling it as criminal. I would have thought news articles were enough to highlight it rather than mocking a dead child with an "award".


I'm thinking it might be a good thing the kid died, because that absolutely prevents him from passing on the diseased religion to his kids. Is "no kids at all" better than "some number of kids indoctrinated with potentially deadly nonsense?"


Yeah it's a good thing. A final solution to the problem of this diseased religion...

Edited by - On fire for Christ on 09/19/2012 23:49:40
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  23:57:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Yes, why not give a ghoulish Darwin award to make fun of dead child who didn't know any better.

Uh, it's not any sort of "darwin" belief that god the kid killed there, buddy...it was your system of religion.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  07:21:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
These are cruel cults. On their website they say: "That divine healing was acquired in Jesus for everyone who believes. (Isaiah 53:4, 5 - 1 Peter 2:24 - Mark 16:17, 18)" With this belief the church should blame the parents for not having enough faith and they will. A cruel cult. God is sovereign and will heal some and not others for his own good purposes.

The bible nowhere condemns doctors, In the New Testament Jesus said, "Those who are well do not need a physician, but those who are sick" (Luke 5:31).

In Luke 4:23 Jesus quotes the proverb, "Physician, heal yourself," and applied it to himself.

Jesus was speaking metaphorically but there is no hint that doctors are evil. They are painted in a good light.

We are told Luke was a dear physician after his conversion. Colossians 4:14.

The government should step in and give medical attention to minors that need it without the parentsí consent if a judge agrees. The government has a requirement to protect life, which is consistent with conservatism. The other children should be taken away from the parents because they have proven that they will let their children die when medical attention was available to save them.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  07:38:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky

Since the kid agreed, Darwin Award, eh?
Since the decision was religiously motivated, perhaps it should be an ID award?

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  08:21:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave:
I'm thinking it might be a good thing the kid died, because that absolutely prevents him from passing on the diseased religion to his kids. Is "no kids at all" better than "some number of kids indoctrinated with potentially deadly nonsense?"

And I'm thinking that blaming the victim for potential future crime is absurd.

And no. No Darwin award. Those go to people who do really stupid things, and by any measure, should have known better. Being indoctrinated from birth into a death cult doesn't really qualify. Attaching high powered rockets to your back and propelling yourself into a brick wall qualifies.

What we have here is an example of what can result from dangerous beliefs. And that puts it in our wheelhouse, as skeptics. It's ours to use as an example of really awful beliefs and what can result from those beliefs. It's a tragic educational tool, and we will use it. You bet!

I don't have an answer about what to do with the parents. I'm not sure they are fit to be parents. So along with probation, I think I would have removed the kids from their care until they could convincingly show that they would never do anything like that again. I dunno. As bad as foster care might be, death is worse. The kids would be removed in a case of child abuse, which this is, so why is this being treated differently? That puzzles me.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  10:15:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Had that been a lone child, then his parents would be eligible for the Darwin Award: If they are old enough not to have more kids, and they cleared their own son out of the gene-pool, then they won't be propagating the stupid-gene.
But since these parents have more kids, the gene is sure to be passed down anyway, thus failing one of the conditions for the Darwin Award.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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alienist
Skeptic Friend

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  11:51:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send alienist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wish I could ask these people: If they think god is so great, then why did he give us an appendix which has no use and only causes problems?

The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis
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Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  14:15:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by alienist

I wish I could ask these people: If they think god is so great, then why did he give us an appendix which has no use and only causes problems?


"I will pray for you!"*

--J.D.

*[Translation: Fuck you!!11!!!--Ed.]

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  16:12:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

False dichotomy. Crazy concept but I can have problems with Darwin awards and negligent parents simultaneously. (I have a gift)
Yeah, but you're maximizing the former and minimizing the latter.
Why, exactly, is it a good thing that this family stay together?
Ask anyone who's ever been split from their brothers and sisters and raised in a string of orphanages and foster homes.
And then we can ask the dead kid whether he'd prefer being dead to being split from his family and living in foster homes.
Who is paying to monitor these people 24/7/365 (a negligent death can occur within minutes)
Probably tax payers. Also there's the deterrent of being on probation. Any further problems would definitely result in jail time. The idea of jail is a deterrent, right? Not a punishment?
Which is worse: a little jail time, or the eternal flames of hell?
why is that better than drawing more attention to this tragedy with a ghoulish Darwin award (poor taste has never been criminal)?
Highlighting poor taste doesn't mean I am labelling it as criminal.
I never suggested otherwise. You're highlighting poor taste while excusing the criminal.
I would have thought news articles were enough to highlight it rather than mocking a dead child with an "award".
Should there be a limit to highlighting? Why can't we do both?
I'm thinking it might be a good thing the kid died, because that absolutely prevents him from passing on the diseased religion to his kids. Is "no kids at all" better than "some number of kids indoctrinated with potentially deadly nonsense?"
Yeah it's a good thing. A final solution to the problem of this diseased religion...
Like I even implied any such thing. Way to Godwin the thread.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  16:26:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

And I'm thinking that blaming the victim for potential future crime is absurd.
The kid's parents are who I blame. It's simply a matter of probability that had he had kids of his own, he would have passed on the toxic ideas of his parents.
The kids would be removed in a case of child abuse, which this is, so why is this being treated differently? That puzzles me.
It's because religions enjoy unearned privileges in our societies (which is central to the whole "accommodationist" kerfuffle among skeptics). "Deeply held beliefs" are, for some unknown reason, treated as virtuous no matter how wrong-headed they might be.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2012 :  16:34:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Yeah, but you're maximizing the former and minimizing the latter.


One line of criticism is maximising? Besides which that still doesn't mean I think the former is worse than the latter. It was a comment made by someone on this board who I have more interaction with than the crime committed by someone who I will probably never encounter. Obviously my reaction will differ due to the situation.

And then we can ask the dead kid whether he'd prefer being dead to being split from his family and living in foster homes.


I think his answer might surprise you.


I never suggested otherwise.

In that case it's weird that you felt the need to say it wasn't criminal.

You're highlighting poor taste while excusing the criminal.

Nope, I never excused any criminals, neither did the judge. There are alternatives to jail time.

]Should there be a limit to highlighting? Why can't we do both?


Because one is distasteful and insensitive and the other is not. I guess if you think mocking dead children with living relatives reaches out to a different demographic in a sufficient quantity than the media alone then your case is valid. I simply don't think we need to stoop that low.

Like I even implied any such thing. Way to Godwin the thread.


Seems like you're treading a very fine line to me. "It might be a good thing he's dead, so he cannot pass on his religion", is just a less proactive version of "let's kill him so he cannot pass on his religion".

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