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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2012 :  18:43:27  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, yesterday the local Jehovah's Witnesses came a call'in. You know they travel in pairs. Not wanting to bother I usually blow them off, politely. While I did decline their latest copy of their "Watchtower" mag', I did have a very polite and cordial 7 minute chat. Frankly I found it enjoyable. I imagine they must have skins like leather to continue doing what they do from all the rejection they get. They said they'd be back and I said I'd be happy to talk again. I got the impression they think I'm a possible convert. I touched on how I didn't like how the Bible has problems like, it was that on the 3 or 4 day God created the sun to rule the day and moon to rule the night, which meant everything He did before He did in the dark, bringing that up as a joke. And I said how in Leviticus God commands slaves to obey and fear their masters and that is just wrong. Slavery is immoral. With both of them being black women they seemed to see it my way too but only on that point.

I'm looking for suggestions on what might be a couple good points to bring up when they return as I was assured they will. Any ideas?

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS

Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  04:49:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ask them why they had to shut up their founder for erroneously predicting the end of the world multiple times because it became too bloody embarrassing.

You can even beat them about the head and shoulders regarding the misunderstanding of the blood prohibition. However, frankly, they will not be interested. So why waste your time?

I know . . . there is a certain sick satisfaction at ruining another's day, but then you have wasted your time which could have been more valuably . . . valueably . . . productively spent with porn.

--J.D.

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  06:57:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Years ago I would tell them at the front door I was a "Druid, reformed". That always got a confused look and a quick turn-about. Now a days I'm more honest telling them up front this is a "No god zone and that this is a warm fuzzy Atheist household". I then would wish them a happy day as they'd turn around and leave with a confused look.
Religion should be filed in the science fiction catalog in our libraries.

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  10:05:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had JW's come to my door last month. I told them I'm an atheist, and if they care about printing costs, don't leave a watchtower with me. One of them asked me why I'm an atheist. I told her, " I read the bible." She said it had on opposite effect on her, but accepted my answer. Then they left. No muss, no fuss. It was all very cordial. I'm thinking she had nowhere to go once I said it was their book that made me what I am. (Only partially true by the way. That would just be a rejection of the Judeo/Christian god. I reject them all.)

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  19:05:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Doctor X

Ask them why they had to shut up their founder for erroneously predicting the end of the world multiple times because it became too bloody embarrassing.
Hummm, Not bad, I'll raise the topic about those failed predictions for 1914, 1925 and 1975. Those are the failed Jehovah's "Armageddon is here" predictions. With any Religious predictions of the second coming or "end times" they are ploys to grow the membership and/or to con cash from those suckered into believing their erroneous predictions, as they proved to be. We've just seen Harold Camping play that con-game twice back to back, relatively recently. If they were ever true, like with Camping, we wouldn't have those 144,000 "True Christian" not snatched up and the world wouldn't be as it is today. Every single time, when the date passes, they are always followed by back peddling, denial or re clarify. I'll bring that up and observe the response and see if they modify, avoid or deny the failed past record. To acknowledge that their group was wrong will forever throw a cloud over anything they say with absolute certainty. If you get my drift. ;)

Their safe bet is to preach "Join our church now, the time is short. We have no exact date. Be prepared, get saved, find God now".


You can even beat them about the head and shoulders regarding the misunderstanding of the blood prohibition. However, frankly, they will not be interested. So why waste your time?


I have no desire to beat them up in any way or play a game of "gotchya". I do believe they, in their hearts, are trying to save me. Bring me to know God as they do. I find that very admirable if they are not frauds in their heart. They want ME to see the light and (now get this) I want THEM to see the light. In a twisted way of looking at it we both want the same thing, which is not the same thing because of our spiritual dichotomy.

I know . . . there is a certain sick satisfaction at ruining another's day, but then you have wasted your time which could have been more valuably . . . valueably . . . productively spent with porn.

--J.D.
Is it a waste of time to visit (a bit) and exchange beliefs with people who care about me and mean me no ill? I don't see how. If they can make me pause and dwell on something they got, I'm all ears. My challenge as I make it, is to say something/s to them that give them pause and makes them think about it.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
Edited by - sailingsoul on 09/16/2012 19:08:58
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  19:19:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Randy

Years ago I would tell them at the front door I was a "Druid, reformed". That always got a confused look and a quick turn-about. Now a days I'm more honest telling them up front this is a "No god zone and that this is a warm fuzzy Atheist household". I then would wish them a happy day as they'd turn around and leave with a confused look.
Religion should be filed in the science fiction catalog in our libraries.
I have in the past waved them off or replied nicely "no thanks I don't wish to talk religion."

Once I got back "Why not?" It almost worked but I said " But if I answered that, I'll be talking religion." and smiled. They smiled and left.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  20:34:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

I had JW's come to my door last month. I told them I'm an atheist, and if they care about printing costs, don't leave a watchtower with me. One of them asked me why I'm an atheist. I told her, " I read the bible." She said it had on opposite effect on her, but accepted my answer. Then they left. No muss, no fuss. It was all very cordial. I'm thinking she had nowhere to go once I said it was their book that made me what I am. (Only partially true by the way. That would just be a rejection of the Judeo/Christian god. I reject them all.)
I don't expect to really change their beliefs. Will this end here or will they come back, when I'm home? If they do return it wouldn't hurt to be a bit more prepared. That's why I started this thread, for ideas.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  00:27:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul

Hummm, Not bad, I'll raise the topic about those failed predictions for 1914, 1925 and 1975.


You can also note that Junior twice predicted the eschaton would happen in the lifetime of his audience. This is from Mk which both Lk and Mt copy. Now since Mk is post 70 CE and Lk and Mt are later this means the authors expected the eschaton to happen very soon in their lifetimes.

Never happened of course . . . no, the rise of disco does not count.

Every single time, when the date passes, they are always followed by back peddling, denial or re clarify.


Exactly. Finally, the classic study When Prophecy Fails is back in print. Well worth the read.

To acknowledge that their group was wrong will forever throw a cloud over anything they say with absolute certainty. If you get my drift. ;)


Yes . . . and no! As per When Prophecy Fails, when a "discomforture" happens, it may weed out the doubters, but strengthens the believers. It is always emotionally easier to believe another little lie than admit you have been horribly duped. The further you travel down the "rabbit hole" of an irrational belief system, the harder it is to climb out.

Is it a waste of time to visit (a bit) and exchange beliefs with people who care about me and mean me no ill? I don't see how.


I have better porn than you, apparently. . . .

However, ones time is ones time.

--J.D.

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  06:23:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had situations with JW's and roving bands of evangelists.

The evangelists were east enough. I was dressed for a full moon ceremony. They knocked, I show up with a largish pentacle on my chest, robes, cords, and an athame. I had steep stairs. They almost killed themselves fleeing in fear.

All I said was "hello". They never came back.


JW's were bugging me because my stepson at the time was looking for a new religion/new con. I kept telling them to go away.

So, I drew out a human outline on the front porch in chalk and spread copies of the Watchtower and ketchup around.

They stopped coming.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  06:57:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I knew a guy a long time ago who would, on the weekends, answer the door naked just to discourage the missionaries.

As for the OP, there's plenty in the Witnesses' core beliefs to have fun with.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  07:08:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The JW's usually come during the day when my wife is home and I am at work. My wife has christian literature by the door to give to them. They usually take it if my wife takes the watchtower magazine. She usually tries to evangelize to them which usually wraps up the conversation pretty quick. They have always been respectful and polite. Then she usually shreds the watchtower magazine.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  11:07:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've had very few of these encounters but every time I've just given a them a bemused smile and a "no, thanks" and that's been it. I like Valiant Dancer's idea with the chalk, ketchup and magazine, though. I might use something like that this coming Halloween.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2012 :  05:20:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never humour these people, their religion is bad and they should feel bad.

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Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2012 :  05:27:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No worse than other Christian religions.

--J.D.

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2012 :  05:31:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So you're saying it's at least joint-best?

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Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2012 :  05:36:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am afraid I am unfamiliar with that vernacular.

--J.D.

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
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