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MisterMaggot
New Member

Fed Rep Yugoslavia
6 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  06:36:38  Show Profile Send MisterMaggot a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The age at which one can legally feature in a pornographic film or images, hardcore or softcore, is 18. This age was set by the 'Optional Protocol on the Sale of Children, Child Prostitution and Child Pornography' in 2002. Despite this the age of consent for sex is usually lower than 18 in most nations/states.

Why is it acceptable for individuals below the age of 18 to have sex but unacceptable for them to feature in pornography? Why is it justifiable to make sexual images/video of a teenager aged 18 but not 16? If lawmakers are concerned about potential exploitation why isn't the age at which one can be in porn 21 or above?

It should be noted that in the UK the 'Sun' and other British tabloids frequently featured topless 16 year old's until 2003, this had no adverse effects on child welfare in that country.

Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  09:57:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by MisterMaggot
It should be noted that in the UK the 'Sun' and other British tabloids frequently featured topless 16 year old's until 2003, this had no adverse effects on child welfare in that country.
Not on child welfare in general, perhaps, but possibly to the ones on The Sun who were exposed.
Is the limit set to protect the girl being photographed, or to protect the general public?
(Not minding religious prude's senses)

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26007 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  10:06:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by MisterMaggot

Why is it acceptable for individuals below the age of 18 to have sex but unacceptable for them to feature in pornography?
Because of the vagarities of the law-making process, including (but not limited to) the fact that some laws are Federal (like the one you cite), and others (like age-of-consent) only apply to individual states. Age of consent here in Virginia is 18, but with an exception that 15-to-17 year-olds are allowed to have sex with others in the same age group (not 18 or over).

I think we should bump most age-related laws up to 21. Voting, military service, etc. It was my experience that most 18-year-olds just didn't have the wisdom to make good choices (and I include myself in that category - and I'll still not sure I do, 20+ years later).
Why is it justifiable to make sexual images/video of a teenager aged 18 but not 16?
Because if a line isn't drawn, then any time someone winds up in court about it, the court would be required to determine the youngster's maturity and competence (consent-wise), a tedious and subjective process at best, and one that may yield different results between the time the act occurred and the time of testimony before a jury.

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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  16:16:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by MisterMaggot
Why is it acceptable for individuals below the age of 18 to have sex but unacceptable for them to feature in pornography?


Maybe you already know the answer if you ask, "what is the difference between private personal sex and being an actor in a pornographic movie"? I say there is a huge difference because they are two different activities that occur under completely different context. Just like the reason that killing someone is treated so differently under the law depending on the circumstances involved. Depending upon the context of a killing it may be punished by a death penalty, varying amounts of jail time or be deemed justifiable and not criminal at all.

I'm sure there are adults who would think there is little difference between individuals having sex and them featured in pornography.
That would be their shortcoming. I would consider that a huge blind spot they have, like ones held by children with overly simplistic understandings of the world before their thinking becomes more sophisticated and matured.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  16:50:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I always figured that the age of consent should be the same as the age of voting.


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  18:30:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by MisterMaggot
Why is it acceptable for individuals below the age of 18 to have sex but unacceptable for them to feature in pornography? Why is it justifiable to make sexual images/video of a teenager aged 18 but not 16? If lawmakers are concerned about potential exploitation why isn't the age at which one can be in porn 21 or above?


I can't tell that any of your numbers have any more validity than the laws do (not that I'm sure they have a great deal of validity).

You argue that if 18 is old enough, then 16 is old enough too. Why?

Then you argue that if 18 is too young, then 20 (or higher) is too young too. Why?


I think 18 makes sense in the U.S. because that's typically around the time people graduate from secondary school, and people are by default not independent from parents or guardians until that age.

Pegging it to education, independence, the voting age, the ability to join the military, etc, sort of makes sense. I see more logic in matching it to these rights than matching it to the age of consent (and as someone mentioned, this even varies from state to state in the U.S.).

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  18:40:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Perhaps it should be pointed out that our brains aren't fully developed until we reach the age of 25 or so. An 18 year old's brain is about halfway though the journey from the beginning of adolescence to adulthood, physiologically. Insurance companies know that. Just check the insurance rates for teenagers. The decision making part of our brains are not fully cooked yet as teenagers.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1457 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  19:13:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Perhaps it should be pointed out that our brains aren't fully developed until we reach the age of 25 or so. An 18 year old's brain is about halfway though the journey from the beginning of adolescence to adulthood, physiologically. Insurance companies know that. Just check the insurance rates for teenagers. The decision making part of our brains are not fully cooked yet as teenagers.

So by the time our ancient ancestor's brains became fully developed, they died of old age. Damn you, Darwin!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  19:15:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky

Originally posted by Kil

Perhaps it should be pointed out that our brains aren't fully developed until we reach the age of 25 or so. An 18 year old's brain is about halfway though the journey from the beginning of adolescence to adulthood, physiologically. Insurance companies know that. Just check the insurance rates for teenagers. The decision making part of our brains are not fully cooked yet as teenagers.

So by the time our ancient ancestor's brains became fully developed, they died of old age. Damn you, Darwin!



Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2013 :  02:14:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If it was the same as the age of consent it would encourage pornographers to travel to states with a lower age and produce porn with 15 year olds for example. Would watching that be legal in another state? I'm not sure.

Personally I think there are already many huge life choices teenagers have to make. Sooner or later you just have to give people personal independence, and freedom to make their own mistakes, and then learn from them. Maybe their brains are still developing, so better to make mistakes while there is still some plasticity imo.

Edited by - On fire for Christ on 01/31/2013 02:14:21
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2013 :  02:24:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Perhaps it should be pointed out that our brains aren't fully developed until we reach the age of 25 or so. An 18 year old's brain is about halfway though the journey from the beginning of adolescence to adulthood, physiologically. Insurance companies know that. Just check the insurance rates for teenagers. The decision making part of our brains are not fully cooked yet as teenagers.
Drinking age in the USA is another thing. It was 21 (mostly) after prohibition, went to 18 to match the draft age after the Viet Nam was was in full swing and by the mid 80's after the war pretty much all states ran it back up to 21. Those extra three years really makes a difference with alcohol related driving accidents and death rates.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2013 :  06:39:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

If it was the same as the age of consent it would encourage pornographers to travel to states with a lower age and produce porn with 15 year olds for example. Would watching that be legal in another state? I'm not sure.

Personally I think there are already many huge life choices teenagers have to make. Sooner or later you just have to give people personal independence, and freedom to make their own mistakes, and then learn from them. Maybe their brains are still developing, so better to make mistakes while there is still some plasticity imo.


No, it wouldn't.

How do I know? I used to run Baroness' Bungalow BBS from 94-97. We had adult content. Had to make sure the business had legal content and had adequate warning.

The law was a bit sketchy because of some bullshit that two states were pulling (so we refused access to members from those states).

Typically, the law for the owners of the servers is based on the laws of the location of servers. (Tennessee tried imposing their morality on the owners of the servers. It got legally ugly since the owners would have to avoid the state of Tennessee or risk arrest and jail. One actually did get lured to Tennessee and was arrested. He had to fight it to the federal courts which told Tennessee that they were way out of line. Had to do with established caselaw concerning the Prohibition, oddly enough.)

Viewing the material depends on the location of the viewer. (This is also very hard to prosecute.) So, it is possible for the viewer to be arrested and the dissemenator to be in no trouble at all and vice versa.


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2013 :  13:23:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.
Age of consent here in Virginia is 18, but with an exception that 15-to-17 year-olds are allowed to have sex with others in the same age group (not 18 or over).

How weird, a girl could have had sex with her exactly one year older boyfriend from when she was 15 until the day she turns 17, then can't have sex with him for a whole year until she turns 18?

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2013 :  14:00:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by Dave W.
Age of consent here in Virginia is 18, but with an exception that 15-to-17 year-olds are allowed to have sex with others in the same age group (not 18 or over).

How weird, a girl could have had sex with her exactly one year older boyfriend from when she was 15 until the day she turns 17, then can't have sex with him for a whole year until she turns 18?

It's very rare that the law is invoked in cases like that. Closeness of age is usually if not always considered.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26007 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2013 :  22:05:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

How weird, a girl could have had sex with her exactly one year older boyfriend from when she was 15 until the day she turns 17, then can't have sex with him for a whole year until she turns 18?
There are men in the U.S. who must register as sex offenders every time they move because at age 18 they had sex with their 17-year-old girlfriends whose parents found out and had the guy arrested for statutory rape.

What's weirder is that some of these men are now married to those same girlfriends, but still, by law, must register as sex offenders.

Registering as a sex offender tends to be a big deal to the neighborhoods in which those so registered move, because people tend to think "brutal forcible rapist" or "pedophile" when they hear "sex offender," and not "got busted by girlfriend's dad."

Sex-offender databases are public, searchable by address and distance, and display mug shots, full names, ages and the name of the crime for which they were found guilty, but no details. I want to see violent repeat sexual predators in such databases, and not kids-but-legally-adults who got caught fumbling around in the backseat of mom's station wagon, but apparently the laws are written to prevent judges and juries from having such discretion.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2013 :  07:16:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simple fact is that the age has to be something, not nothing. I've known 12 year-olds who were probably mature enough to handle a sexual relationship, and 20 year-olds who probably weren't. Society has both a right and an obligation to set rules, so the majority (we hope) picks a figure and goes with it.

Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

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