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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2013 :  09:59:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Storm:
I want you to know that I do not think ghosts are conscious souls of dead people as most believers do. I do not think they need to move on...see the light...yadayadayada.. I beleive it has to do with a dead persons emotional state at the time of death or during their life time that alters our environment somehow. I also believe that certain people like mediums have parts of their brains that enable them to see this alteration. That is why we all do not see these things.

And every bit of that still remains unevidenced no matter what kind of ghost believer you are.
Storm:
Another thing I beleive is that the mind can be powerful and could peform action beyond the body. i.e. scratches, shaking beds, slamming cabinets. Like poltergeist activity. So in some of these cases of peole hearing sounds during an investigation after commanding a spirit to appear is actully a result of one the investigators mind and not the entity itself.

Telekinesis also lacks supporting evidenced.
Storm:
One thing for sure is that these phenomenas happen everyday to many people.

There is a mountain of research on how our minds fool us. And it's not all psychological.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2013 :  11:36:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

Do people really think this was planned by the government and Satanists. First of Satanists do not kill babies children or anyone for that matter. i should say At least Satatnists associated with Anton Lavey and his San Fransico church. Claiming that a teacher who was killed was a witch and the old man they post in a picture a warlock? Witches and Warlocks are not only found in the religion of Satanism but in good magick. Do some of these people really thinks these children are alive somewhere else? How heartbreaking to some of these parents. Also if some of these people in this town are Satanists so what? have you ever read the Satanic Bible that Anton lavey wrote? I did and it says nothing of killing people or children. Next they will be telling us these people are shapeshifting into lizard people


Good or "white" magick male witches are called witches.

Warlock is thought to come from a word meaning "oath breaker".

Has been with every group I have come in contact with over 20 some odd years of being a witch.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2013 :  16:32:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Has been with every group I have come in contact with over 20 some odd years of being a witch.

A witch!! A witch!!
(sorry, couldn't resist)

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2013 :  19:58:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

Sailing Soul,

I want you to know that I do not think ghosts are conscious souls of dead people as most believers do. I do not think they need to move on...see the light...yadayadayada.. I beleive it has to do with a dead persons emotional state at the time of death or during their life time that alters our environment somehow.
Storm, thanks for clarifying that. It does leave me wondering what is the reason or why you don't hold the standard Ghost concept and hold the one you stated?

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  05:19:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My view comes from years of experience and investigation of my own. One reason is that these figmants do not communicate with us. Seances, ouija, automatic writing I believe are actually answers from our own minds transferred to the planche, the paper even through a human being.
These thigns have not been proven because science as well as these ghost hunters stil cannot let go of the ball and chain of Spiritualism: Fradulasim and the adement belief ghosts are the conscious souls of deceased people. Sure there are reports and studies of how the mind can be fooled. But the phenomena is to great just to push aside and chalk it up to fantasy prone or a trick of the mind and eye.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  08:19:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

My view comes from years of experience and investigation of my own.
What are you methods?

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  09:29:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Storm;
These thigns have not been proven because science as well as these ghost hunters stil cannot let go of the ball and chain of Spiritualism...

I don't think that's true. Evidence for ghosts is not dependent on anything other than do they exist? Spiritualism has nothing to do with it. Scientists aren't considering spirit boxes and seances much anymore. Maybe some paranormal investigators still consider it, but spiritualism itself is pretty much a thing of the past. And even though there are people who claim to be able to talk to the dead, they haven't shown any evidence that they can do that either. Ghost sightings, like Bigfoot, alien and lake monster sightings still persist. You think spiritualism poisoned the well. It's the lack of evidence that ghosts even exist that is the reason for doubt that they do. Who cares if they are conscious beings or not if their very existence is still in question?
Storm:
But the phenomena is to great just to push aside and chalk it up to fantasy prone or a trick of the mind and eye.

Given the lack of evidence, the default is another explanation. And let me ask you Storm. Would it bother you so much if tricks our minds play on us were the correct explanation? What's wrong with that? It's still pretty cool, don't you think?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  09:30:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My methods of investigation include.

History of the house, history of occurences, profile of person involved in the experiences. Rule out natural occurences. psychological issues.

I have not investigated anything for more than 6 years.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  09:54:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

My methods of investigation include.

History of the house, history of occurences, profile of person involved in the experiences. Rule out natural occurences. psychological issues.

I have not investigated anything for more than 6 years.
How would an impartial observer employ these same methods and reach the same conclusion that you have. History and profile strike me as being anecdotal and the only tool necessary for ruling out natural explanations is denial. Your methods are pretty vague.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  10:02:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Storm:
Rule out natural occurences. psychological issues.

How can you rule those things out when so much is being learned now about how our minds work?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  20:16:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Storm, I'm glad you replied honestly to my direct question which was "It does leave me wondering what is the reason or why you don't hold the standard Ghost concept and hold the one you stated?" but I'm not clear on the why it is different or the what you found with your research that causes you to differ from the standard beliefs. If there are such things as standard ghost beliefs. Possibly my question assumes you changed your beliefs at some time and that might not be the case. If so the question would be "what caused you to formulate different ones than others that you hold now?".

From what I got so far is your view or belief (if I'm not putting words in your mouth) is that, as you state it "One reason is that these figmants do not communicate with us." So to be clear with my curiosity, was your view or belief acquired before or after your investigations and can your say what your view or belief is based on. As I read it, to just says it's based on your research is a little vague for me it fully understand the "what" or "why" that brought you to your view or belief of that comment.

edit: added bolding


There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
Edited by - sailingsoul on 03/23/2013 20:40:40
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  10:33:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My conclusions are my own... through my own investigations. None the less I believe them to be true.I have done numerous seances, automatic writing, spells, etc... No ghosts... only their energy left over
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  11:24:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Storm

My conclusions are my own... through my own investigations. None the less I believe them to be true.I have done numerous seances, automatic writing, spells, etc... No ghosts... only their energy left over
How come you don't answer my questions?


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  12:31:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh I am sorry. I would not forget you. I rule out natural and psychological after I have explored those possibilities in an investigation. So true about the unevidence. Wish someone with time and money would do a serious investigation.
It's not that Spiritualism still exists... it is the mindset that Spiritulaism brought about.. which is FRAUD...So speaking with ghosts becomes fraudulent...survival is fraudulent..of course they are not going to investigate spirit boxes and the such..because scientist believe these things are fraudelent.
I have no problem with tricks of the mind. The lack of evidence is because no one like scientists will investigate. Although there is very much interesting read from The Society of Psychic Research.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  13:24:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Storm:
I rule out natural and psychological after I have explored those possibilities in an investigation.

Tricks our minds play on us might not be psychological. So how can you rule them out? We are wired to make sense of what we see, and our minds fill in blanks with interpretations coming from the minds eye. Optical illusions are an example of that. Even when we know our mind is tricking us, we still see it as our mind wants us to see it. Our minds also play audio and olfactory tricks on us. So you can rule out natural and even psychological examinations, (if you are qualified to do that) and still not get that there could be more going by way of our trickster minds.

Also, what if there were nothing but our minds creating these things? Would that be so terrible? You reject that out of hand, but why? Is your belief that these things exist leaving you no room to seriously consider any other possibility?

You seem to think that if scientists work on the problem the way you want them to work on it, they will conclude what you have concluded. But what if they don't? Are you willing to let go of your belief or will you think that they must have made a mistake?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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