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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
 Posted - 10/28/2013 : 18:20:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Well, without a doubt the healthcare.gov website is a goddamn disgrace. I tried it out a week or so ago, though I don't need it at the moment. I had troubles finishing the application process and gave up. It's like they decided to let the customers alpha test this. Horrible, and the worst thing that could have happened to such a high profile program. They should have delayed it. |
History repeats:And, interestingly, same with the Medicare Part D program during the Bush administration, which had all sorts of computer glitches initially as well. And surprise, surprise, some of the same Republicans who are screaming bloody murder over the problems with the Obamacare website today were urging calm, bipartisan cooperation to fix the problems with that rollout in 2006. I don't recall any Democrats whining that because the Part D system was borked, the law itself should be repealed, like some Republicans today are doing. They're basically saying that because the website is broken, it's a sign that the whole of the ACA will similarly unravel. I guess with the ubiquity of the Internet, it's easy to forget that people can sign up over the phone. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2013 : 06:32:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by pleco
Well, without a doubt the healthcare.gov website is a goddamn disgrace. I tried it out a week or so ago, though I don't need it at the moment. I had troubles finishing the application process and gave up. It's like they decided to let the customers alpha test this. Horrible, and the worst thing that could have happened to such a high profile program. They should have delayed it. |
History repeats:And, interestingly, same with the Medicare Part D program during the Bush administration, which had all sorts of computer glitches initially as well. And surprise, surprise, some of the same Republicans who are screaming bloody murder over the problems with the Obamacare website today were urging calm, bipartisan cooperation to fix the problems with that rollout in 2006. I don't recall any Democrats whining that because the Part D system was borked, the law itself should be repealed, like some Republicans today are doing. They're basically saying that because the website is broken, it's a sign that the whole of the ACA will similarly unravel. I guess with the ubiquity of the Internet, it's easy to forget that people can sign up over the phone.
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Funny, I remember Republicans and Democrats pitching a bitch over how Med D was a giant giveaway to Big Pharma (it is because it contains none of the cost controls that other Medicare legislation contains). |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2013 : 07:09:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by pleco
Well, without a doubt the healthcare.gov website is a goddamn disgrace. I tried it out a week or so ago, though I don't need it at the moment. I had troubles finishing the application process and gave up. It's like they decided to let the customers alpha test this. Horrible, and the worst thing that could have happened to such a high profile program. They should have delayed it. |
History repeats:And, interestingly, same with the Medicare Part D program during the Bush administration, which had all sorts of computer glitches initially as well. And surprise, surprise, some of the same Republicans who are screaming bloody murder over the problems with the Obamacare website today were urging calm, bipartisan cooperation to fix the problems with that rollout in 2006. I don't recall any Democrats whining that because the Part D system was borked, the law itself should be repealed, like some Republicans today are doing. They're basically saying that because the website is broken, it's a sign that the whole of the ACA will similarly unravel. I guess with the ubiquity of the Internet, it's easy to forget that people can sign up over the phone.
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The website is highly visible and easily accessible. It is much easier to show it on the national news than some amorphous call center. Plus, I think people feel more comfortable giving personal information to a web form than to another human being (or maybe I'm projecting). I think that, given this, it should have been delayed until it was ready for prime time.
Oh, and politicians being two faced? Well I never! |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 10/29/2013 07:09:52 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2013 : 10:10:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
I suspect he would be griping about his assumption that illegal immigrants will be getting some benefits from ACA without helping with taxes on their income. |
Most times I don't even know why I ever come back here. Banging your head agaisnt the wall over and over gets old after awhile. It has been my general observation in dealing with most liberal/progressive Obama supporters that as a white male who opposes the Obama agenda I must, no, I have to be a racist. No other conclusion is ever even considered. Same when it comes to illegal immigration. If I say I want our immigration laws enforced by default I must be a racist. It makes no difference if I support conservative minorities or if I have no problem with legal immigration, that is dismissed with a hand wave. As long as I oppose the Obama agenda and illegal immigration than I am labeled a racist in the progressive's backwards bizzaro world.
If I point to Star Parker as one who I would have mentor my two daughters this is dismissed because progressives don't recognize conservative black people as real black people. Only progressive blacks are recognized by progressives as real black people. So racism is the only acceptable answer the progressive will accept as to why I oppose the Obama agenda and me pointing to black conservatives that I support does not reverse this accusation as white progressives don't accept black conservatives as real black people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZRbZ5jEQpY
Supporting Ben Carson won't stop the progressives from loosely throwing racism accusations around because, after all, they refuse to consider black conservatives as real black people so they claim the racism accusations stand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpiryahOspY
Naturally nobody insults King Obama on his throne and in front of his queen without a visit from BO's own personal gestapo.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/3/irs-targeted-dr-ben-carson-after-prayer-breakfast-/?page=all
And if I support black conservatives who support the NRA it does not matter to the progressives as they do not consider black conservatives as real black people anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RABZq5IoaQ
So again in the backwards bizzaro word of the loony progressive left all white conservatives are racist if they oppose progressive blacks and white progressives are not racist if they oppose conservative blacks because there is no such thing as a black conservative. Oh good grief!!!!!
At this point it is pointless to sit here a debate ACA with you all as it now is self-evident that this thing started off as a train wreck and is only gaining momentum as an even bigger train wreck yet to come. Even the progressive left is coming to grips with this fact. The only issue still open for debate is whether this train wreck is is the result of utter incompetence or if it was designed to be the train wreck that it is to use the train wreck for a stepping stone to single payer? So the conclusion we are all left to ponder is "Is the Obama administration the most incompetent in American history or are they the most dishonest? Take your pick.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/362484/top-dem-admits-we-knew-jonathan-strong |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 10/30/2013 10:46:33 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2013 : 10:42:01 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| They're basically saying that because the website is broken, it's a sign that the whole of the ACA will similarly unravel. |
The whole thing is broken and unraveling. It's utter dependence is based on millions of young healthy people signing up and then not using or needing the insurance which is supposed to offset the costs for the old and impoverished who will use it. Trouble is nobody is signing up by internet, phone or snail mail. Those that do get accounts made are still not signing up due do to sticker shock. The BO administration is refusing to release the signup numbers as they can't handle anymore crises at this moment. Again we can debate this all you want or we can just observe reality as the train crashes right in front of our very eyes for all to see.
| I guess with the ubiquity of the Internet, it's easy to forget that people can sign up over the phone. |
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So after 5 years and billions of $$$ spent you want me to give personal and sensitive information over the phone or by snail mail to those who can't even create a working website with all that money and time? Besides I have heard similar stories of the phone signup being a boondoggle as well. I have yet to see the media running all the anecdotal stories of consumers signing up for Obamacare and coming away thinking its the greatest thing since sliced bread. They have been running the stores where people can't even login or speak with a live operator. And the ones who do wish they never would have after they get their sticker stock under control. I wish Jay would not retire:
JAY LENO: Here's a very disturbing story. You may have heard about this. Twenty-five-year-old man in New York arrested for trying to join al Qaeda. Here's the amazing part: He said it was still easier to join al Qaeda using their website than it was to sign up for ObamaCare.
President Obama said yesterday when it comes to all the problems with the ObamaCare website, he said, 'No one is madder than me.' So, apparently, he hasn't met any of these Republicans.
It is hard because today there were more problems with the website. It seems when you type in your age it's confusing because it's not clear if they want the age you are right now or the age you'll be when you finally login.
Here's my favorite part: The president said yesterday that if it's taking too long and you're having trouble, you can bypass the website and enroll by mail. Only the federal government could take five years and spend 500 billion dollars to come up with a website that's slower than sending something by mail. Isn't that amazing? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2013 : 13:47:26 [Permalink]
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Funny. The states having real problems are red states that refused to set up exchanges of their own. Now Republicans are pissed because the federal exchange website is not working properly, which is a bummer, but let's face it, the Republicans couldn't be happier. It also cracks me up that people think using the phone is dangerous or something. Why would it be? And mail to fill out forms? Since when is that so dangerous? It's all bullshit.
I'm in California, a blue state with an exchange, and had no trouble getting signed up. It took about 20 minutes. I will now have health insurance for the first time in over three years.
It's a total bummer that the feds flubbed the website. Shit happens.
I think the worst thing about it is how much political capital the Republicans are getting from it, right after they lost so badly trying to blackmail the country over the debt limit. That adventure in assholery cost the nation 24 billion dollars, and it was to kill off Obamacare. Now they are outraged that people are finding it hard to sign up?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2013 : 21:30:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
The whole thing is broken and unraveling. It's utter dependence is based on millions of young healthy people signing up and then not using or needing the insurance which is supposed to offset the costs for the old and impoverished who will use it. |
That's how all insurance works, Bill. The people who don't wreck their cars offset the costs of repairs for people who do.
But that's why health insurance is a bad idea in the first place. Everyone needs health care at some point in their lives. It's not like gambling your house won't catch fire.| Trouble is nobody is signing up by internet, phone or snail mail. |
Lie.| Those that do get accounts made are still not signing up due do to sticker shock. |
Lie.| Again we can debate this all you want or we can just observe reality as the train crashes right in front of our very eyes for all to see. |
We can't debate anything if you're going to so boldly lie.| Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So after 5 years... |
The PPACA became law in 2010. It's now 2013. Subtract, and you don't get five. When you think about it, you only have to subtract zero from three to get the right answer, and you blew it, Bill. What's that say about your credibility on anything having to do with numbers, like the cost of the program or how many (or few) people are signing up?| ...and billions of $$$ spent... |
Citations, please.| ...you want me to give personal and sensitive information over the phone or by snail mail to those who can't even create a working website with all that money and time? |
You think the people working the phones are the same people programming the website? Bwahahahahahahahahaha!| I have yet to see the media running all the anecdotal stories of consumers signing up for Obamacare and coming away thinking its the greatest thing since sliced bread. |
That's because you refuse to leave your preferred anti-PPACA sources. Open your eyes a bit.| I wish Jay would not retire: |
Because a comedian is a good source of information. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2013 : 21:50:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
If I point to Star Parker as one who I would have mentor my two daughters this is dismissed because progressives don't recognize conservative black people as real black people. |
Star Parker isn't merely a conservative, she's a bigot, too. The idea that a bigot would be happy to have his daughters mentored by another bigot isn't at all surprising. You and Parker have anti-gay bigotry in common, after all.Another anti-gay bigot. Go figure.| ...won't stop the progressives from loosely throwing racism accusations around because, after all, they refuse to consider black conservatives as real black people so they claim the racism accusations stand. |
No, saying "some of my best friends are black" has never been a good reason to think someone's not a racist. Quite the opposite, actually.
Really, if you want to convince me you're not a racist, all you've got to do is quit saying obviously racist things. Pointing to some African Americans as admirable when the vast majority of illegal immigrants aren't African does nothing to mitigate the racism of your previous comment. Context is important, after all.
And the fact that the PPACA wasn't designed to help enforce immigration laws suggests that you're simply confused about what the law is supposed to do. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 04:51:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Funny. The states having real problems are red states that refused to set up exchanges of their own. Now Republicans are pissed because the federal exchange website is not working properly... |
Even funnier: Congressional Republicans demanded to get development briefings on the exchange website, and then didn't bother to show up when those briefings were held.
This is similar to the 50th Anniversary of the March on Washington this past August. None of the many Congressional Republicans who were invited to attend or speak at the event opted to do so, and then afterwards they expressed outrage at how they had been left out.
Next time an invite shows up in my mailbox for joining the GOP, I think I'll make a big display of throwing it in the trash, and then I'll take to the Internet to whine about how the party isn't serving my needs. What a bunch of entitled asshats.| It also cracks me up that people think using the phone is dangerous or something. Why would it be? And mail to fill out forms? Since when is that so dangerous? It's all bullshit. |
Twenty years ago, the idea that one might volunteer credit card info over the Internet was laughable. One instead would insist on getting a real-live person on the phone, or fax in forms. How times have changed!
Congrats on being insured again, Kil! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 05:55:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Funny. The states having real problems are red states that refused to set up exchanges of their own. Now Republicans are pissed because the federal exchange website is not working properly, which is a bummer, but let's face it, the Republicans couldn't be happier. It also cracks me up that people think using the phone is dangerous or something. Why would it be? And mail to fill out forms? Since when is that so dangerous? It's all bullshit.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 06:12:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by Kil
Funny. The states having real problems are red states that refused to set up exchanges of their own. Now Republicans are pissed because the federal exchange website is not working properly, which is a bummer, but let's face it, the Republicans couldn't be happier. It also cracks me up that people think using the phone is dangerous or something. Why would it be? And mail to fill out forms? Since when is that so dangerous? It's all bullshit.
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I was unaware that Illinois was a "Red State".
You may want to crank this claim back, Kil. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 09:22:51 [Permalink]
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| It also cracks me up that people think using the phone is dangerous or something. Why would it be? And mail to fill out forms? Since when is that so dangerous? It's all bullshit. |
None of it is safe. CNN has already done reports of hackers easily getting in. None of it meets any basic requirements for data security and the feds knew/know it.
I'm in California, a blue state with an exchange, and had no trouble getting signed up. It took about 20 minutes. I will now have health insurance for the first time in over three years.
It's a total bummer that the feds flubbed the website. Shit happens. |
Yup, just dismiss with a hand wave the money and time the feds have blown on this boondoggle of a website alone in the Obamacare roll out. Who cares, It's just tax payer money they are blowing through. Dude you live in a broke state which resides in a broke union and your health insure program is unsustainable. Why is it that liberal/progressives refuse to acknowledge the realities of this word? A wise old man once told me to never accept diet advice from fat people and to never accept financial advice from broke people unless it is on what not to do. Sounded pretty logical to me.
| I think the worst thing about it is how much political capital the Republicans are getting from it, right after they lost so badly trying to blackmail the country over the debt limit. That adventure in assholery cost the nation 24 billion dollars, and it was to kill off Obamacare. Now they are outraged that people are finding it hard to sign up? |
So when is Obama held accountable for anything? He ramrods this heathcare through a dem house and dem senate against the will of the American people. The pubs are ultimately proved helpless to stop it. BO gets everything he wants and rolls out his signature legislation and it's a train wreck, set to be a continuing never ending train wreck, but somehow this is all the pubs fault??? He knows nothing of fast and furious, he knows nothing about the IRS targeting whoever they feel like, he has no idea the NSA is spying on world leaders, he wakes up in the morning to learn about bengazi on the news, he learns at the same time the American people do that the whole ACA is a POS. I just have one question. Who on God's green earth is running the US of A because it sure ain't BO? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 09:35:30 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| That's how all insurance works, Bill. |
That is lie and you know it. Why do you wish to deceive, Dave?
A. In private insurance entrepreneurs must present a sustainable business model to investors who then decide if they want to invest in the venture or not. With Obamacare the president holds a gun to the potential investor's heads (the American tax payer) and tells them that they will be "investing" in Obamacare whether they want to or not.
B. In private insurance if millions of dollars and years of time are wasted on a roll out as disastrous as the ACA the investors pull the plug to stop the bleeding and the company goes out of business. With Obamacare king Obama tells the "investors" more time and money will be wasted trying to fix the train wreck whether you like it or not.
C. In private insurance those with the least amount of risk pay the least amount on their premiums. With Obamacare those at the highest risk will pay less in premiums to those who have the least amount of risk. This is a polar opposite.
D. If the venture proves unsustainable the private insurance entrepreneurs cannot force additional "investments" out of the investors. With Obamacare king Obama has forced new taxes on the investors to help offset the fact that Obamacare is unsustainable in and of itself. Private insurance cannot do this. For example the new medical device tax will be passed down to the investors (tax payers) in the form of higher health care costs in the name offsetting the costs of ACA.
So as you see private health care and socialized health care do not work the same. Why is unsustainable so hard of a concept for libs/progressives to comprehend?
| You think the people working the phones are the same people programming the website? Bwahahahahahahahahaha! |
You think you are safe giving your private information to them whether it is over the internet, phone or mail?
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
| That's because you refuse to leave your preferred anti-PPACA sources. Open your eyes a bit. |
A lie. I follow all sources. I like a well rounded conclusion.
| I wish Jay would not retire: |
Because a comedian is a good source of information. |
Because a comedian is a good source for a laugh.
Star Parker isn't merely a conservative, she's a bigot, too.
Supporting Ben Carson... Another anti-gay bigot. Go figure. No, saying "some of my best friends are black" has never been a good reason to think someone's not a racist. Quite the opposite, actually. |
Thanks for lying, going off on a tangent and proving my point for me all in one breath.
I never said my best friend was black.
I said that as a while male who opposes the Obama agenda I am often called a racist by lib/progressives for no other reason. I then said that pointing to black conservatives who I admire is useless in this debate because the white progressives just dismiss the black conservatives as not being real black people.
You respond to me by saying, and I will paraphrase here, the black conservatives I admire are bigots as well as conservatives and we all know that bigoted conservative black people do not count as real black people so you are still a racist Bill.
1. The Lie. I never said I had a black best friend. I said there were plenty of blacks that I do admire, BO just is not one of them.
2. The claim by you was that I was a racist and then in mid-stride you go off on some tangent about alleged bigotry of conservative blacks. We can have the bigoted conservative blacks talk another day but right now the topic is accusations of racism against me by you.
3. I also said that most progressives will dismiss my admiration of conservative blacks because in their backwards bizzaro world conservative blacks are not real black people. You follow that up with this weird and deceiving response by calling the black conservatives I admire bigots (as if black conservative "bigots" are not real black people) and also that me claiming I have black best friends is no evidence that I am not a racist. You followed the lib/progressive playbook line by line just as I had predicted.
| Really, if you want to convince me you're not a racist, all you've got to do is quit saying obviously racist things. Pointing to some African Americans as admirable when the vast majority of illegal immigrants aren't African does nothing to mitigate the racism of your previous comment. Context is important, after all. |
Nothing I do will ever convince you to drop the unfounded accusations. All I did was imply that I disapprove of illegal immigration and you are off to the races with your racist/bigot rants. No care at all to learn my thoughts on legal immigration or amnesty or if I admire conservative Latinos, which I do. Instead of saying that you are sorry for the false accusations of racism and just acknowledging that I am not racist but rather I just disagree with all progressives, you say that the minorities which I admire are conservatives and so therefore you refuse to apologize for your defamation. There is no logically dealing with a person when they stoop to these levels.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 10/31/2013 09:47:08 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 10:07:55 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| No, what matters is that Harry Alford is a pants-on-fire liar. The bizarro world is all yours, Bill, in which you proudly proclaim your support for bigots and liars, and expect your rants against straw men to be taken seriously. |
Just keep right on proving my point for me. Rather than just acknowledge that your racism accusations against me are completely unfounded and without merit you go off on some tangent about how you don't like the personal beliefs of the black people I admire. Maybe these black conservatives are bigots, or maybe they are not, but it is totally irrelevant to your claim that I am a racist simply because I don't approve of illegal immigration. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery!
