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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 10:22:28 [Permalink]
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Val:
You may want to crank this claim back, Kil. |
Will do! But Illinois didn't set up an exchange. So people being sent to the federal exchange are running into problems.
| The landing page will ask Illinois consumers to type in basic data such as income and family size. Based on that information, they will be directed either to a site to apply for Medicaid, the public program for the poor, or to the federally run marketplace to buy private insurance. |
Kaiser Health News |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 10:30:09 [Permalink]
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Bill:
So when is Obama held accountable for anything? He ramrods this heathcare through a dem house and dem senate against the will of the American people. The pubs are ultimately proved helpless to stop it. BO gets everything he wants and rolls out his signature legislation and it's a train wreck, set to be a continuing never ending train wreck, but somehow this is all the pubs fault??? |
I didn't say the roll out was the Republicans fault. I said they are being hypocritical about it by feigning concern that there are faults in the online federal internet exchange.
And you better back up that claim that the ACA was against the will of the people. If anything, some of us wanted a single payer system. But the will of the people was to have some health care system in place, which the Republicans didn't offer at all. Unless you count Obamacare, which is a Republican idea. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 10/31/2013 : 11:06:19 [Permalink]
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| And you better back up that claim that the ACA was against the will of the people. |
One week before the election that will likely determine Obamacare's fate, Americans support its repeal by an even wider margin than they did in the immediate aftermath of its highly unpopular passage.
According to newly released polling from Rasmussen Reports, by a margin of 15 percentage points (54 to 39 percent), likely voters now support the repeal of President Obama's centerpiece legislation. In the first three polls taken in the wake of the House's passage of Obamacare (on March 21, 2010), Rasmussen showed that likely voters then favored repeal by margins of 13 points (55 to 42 percent), 12 points (54 to 42 percent), and 12 points (54 to 42 percent).
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2012/10/30/obamacare_more_unpopular_now_than_2010_294571.html
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cnn-poll-only-25-support-obamacare
http://www.newsmax.com/US/obamacare-poll-majority-healthcare/2012/06/07/id/441518
| If anything, some of us wanted a single payer system. |
Becuase they have done such a good job with ACA let's give them more responsability  |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 12:32:57 [Permalink]
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Rasmussen is a right leaning poll. But regardless of that, here's some recent articles on the polling:
New Poll: Only One-Third Of Americans Support Repealing, Defunding Or Delaying Obamacare
The US healthcare paradox: we like the Affordable Care Act but fear Obamacare
Given the discordance between Americans' feelings on the individual parts of Obamacare and the law as a whole, it's not that surprising that a striking 41% of Americans don't feel they have enough information about the ACA, per the UConn/Hartford survey. Only 19% say they are very familiar with the law.
The individual provision questions strike the same chord. More than a third of people are unaware of the health insurance exchanges, subsidy assistance to individuals, or the Medicaid expansion. The latter two provisions of the law have actually seen a decrease in the percentage of people who knew these policies were in the bill, since it first passed. The only part of Obamacare that Americans seem to know really well is the individual mandate, which has also seen the largest percentage-point increase in awareness.
More worryingly, more people than not thought that Obamacare includes a public option, undocumented immigrant insurance, "death panels", and cuts to Medicare. The Affordable Care Act contains none of these.
The fact is most of Obamacare is liked by the public. The issue is that the provision that is not liked is the best-known. |
So Bill. Brace yourself. I'm going to agree with you. But it's my belief (and the belief of most of the people looking at this) that the reasons are because the PR has been terrible on the ACA side of things, and the Republican campaign against it, which included "death panel" assertions and "they will take away your medicare" and all the other bullshit the right has pushed has confused many people about what the act really does.
It's also my belief that once this thing gets off the ground, people will like it, which is what the GOP fears the most. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 13:29:08 [Permalink]
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| It's also my belief that once this thing gets off the ground, people will like it, which is what the GOP fears the most. |
It's my belief that now that the bill is passed and people can find out whats in it they will dislike it even more. Especially the millions of people who thought they would be able to keep their current coverage, because BO said they would be able to, who are now getting cancellation notices and those who hours are getting cut to stay below 30 and at the end of November when the website still does not work, and once all the new taxes kick in it will just get worse and worse in the polls for ACA. The bad news for Obamacare is the worst is yet to come. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2013 : 21:11:44 [Permalink]
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The two biggest issues with this law is the elimination of coverage caps on policies. As of right now, no longer will insurance providers be able to stop paying health care coverage after some existing limit is reached, leaving you with no coverage at all going forward. Just when you need it most. For those who might find themselves paying more, it's not because as the Republican lies say, that they're now paying for coverage of others but they are paying more because they will have real coverage that doesn't drop you from coverage because you got really sick and needed it and reach you limit. They will still have coverage no matter how much the bills are.
The second issue is the elimination of health care uninsurability of preexisting conditions. I really wish the democrats would make these a major talking point but in their usual manner, they miss the boat and get walked all over letting Republicans control the message with their lies in the media. Obama should be mentioning this every time he touches the topic when he speaks. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
| Edited by - sailingsoul on 10/31/2013 21:54:37 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 07:00:27 [Permalink]
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Anderson Cooper of CNN, not Fox, The Blaze, or Rush Limbaugh, is reporting that the tyrant Obama is now threatening the insurance co to keep quit about changes made to ACA after it was passed into law which is now forcing insurance companies to cancel millions of polices. Wow this clown BO really does think he is the king. Sad for the American and for those loosing their current polices that they wanted to keep.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/30/did-the-obama-administration-pressure-insurance-companies/ |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 08:57:10 [Permalink]
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Bill:
Anderson Cooper of CNN, not Fox, The Blaze, or Rush Limbaugh, is reporting that the tyrant Obama is now threatening the insurance co to keep quit about changes made to ACA after it was passed into law which is now forcing insurance companies to cancel millions of polices. Wow this clown BO really does think he is the king. Sad for the American and for those loosing their current polices that they wanted to keep. |
Cooper talking to a reporter who talked to someone in the industry who is against the ACA is not Cooper reporting on threats to keep the industry quiet. Allegations don't equal facts.
Also, the plans being dropped are plans that didn't meet the ACA requirements. It's my belief that this news should have been more upfront, but being underinsured is not having good health insurance. If you have a plan that meets the requirements of the ACA, you can keep that plan. And lots of people are reporting that they are winding up with better plans at a lower cost by switching to the plans being offered. I wish there was more reporting about that, but it's not as big a news item.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 12:21:26 [Permalink]
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What a lying POS this President is turning out to be. No surprise to me but many of my lib/progressive friends have been in utter shock these last few weeks. Barry is not turning out to be the Messiah they all thought, and he claimed, that he was.
Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, "40 to 67 percent" of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, "the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range."
That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.
Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, "if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan," was still saying in 2012, "If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance."
"This says that when they made the promise, they knew half the people in this market outright couldn't keep what they had and then they wrote the rules so that others couldn't make it either," said Robert Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, a consultant who works for health industry firms. Laszewski estimates that 80 percent of those in the individual market will not be able to keep their current policies and will have to buy insurance that meets requirements of the new law, which generally requires a richer package of benefits than most policies today.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101150855 |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 12:58:04 [Permalink]
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| Cooper talking to a reporter who talked to someone in the industry who is against the ACA is not Cooper reporting on threats to keep the industry quiet. Allegations don't equal facts. |
Shoot that CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC etc... would have run a negative story on Barry is a headline in and of itself.
| Also, the plans being dropped are plans that didn't meet the ACA requirements. |
And Barry changed the requirements after the law was passed and he has known since at least 2010 that up to 90 million Americans would lose their coverage over ACA. See my above post. Yet this POS rammed the law through anyway and has been spouting off for 3 years now that people can keep their current coverage if they want knowing damn well they could not.
| It's my belief that this news should have been more upfront, |
Shoot, trying being a conservative. We have been saying this for years! Welcome to the club, Kil.
| but being underinsured is not having good health insurance. If you have a plan that meets the requirements of the ACA, you can keep that plan. |
But Barry never said one time anything about "meeting the ACA requirements" during the 1000's of times he said people could keep what they had if they like it and the ACA requirements are a moving goalpost. Barry knew no later than 2010 that as many as 90 million people would not be able to keep their coverage under his moving goalpost requirments, yet he lied about this for years telling everybody they will be able to.
| And lots of people are reporting that they are winding up with better plans at a lower cost by switching to the plans being offered. |
Define "lots". Shoot only 6 people in the whole country signed up on the big roll out day. The MSNBC's of the world were drooling at the mouth on roll out day waiting to show the American people how easy and great Obamacare was going to be only to be completely embarrassed and humiliated by the disaster. They were combing the streets trying to find Obamacare successes stories but to no avail. Finally they just stopped talking about it. And for every anecdotal story of someone paying less for more I can give you 10 stories of people paying more for less. The people are pissed about this one. I have a feeling Barry and the national media are not going to be able to sweep this one under the rug like they have grown accustom to doing.
| I wish there was more reporting about that, but it's not as big a news item. |
Or maybe the media just can't find all these anecdotal stories that you talk about. If they could they would run them to cover for their boy Barry. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 12:59:02 [Permalink]
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 13:33:22 [Permalink]
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So why did the President not say, "If you like your current plan/doctor you can keep it, unless it does not meet the ACA standards, then you will be cancelled, but for the vast majority of you that do get cancelled you will be qualified for an ACA policy that far and away exceeds your old one." if this was all true?
Instead for at least 3 years the President ran around spouting over and over that, "You can keep your current plan and doctor if you like it, period" knowing the whole time that that was a bold face lie. So I don't understand why he would use such a stupid approach knowing that up to 90 million would be losing their insurance in spite of him saying otherwise. It just makes him look very bad. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 17:42:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
So why did the President not say, "If you like your current plan/doctor you can keep it, unless it does not meet the ACA standards, then you will be cancelled, but for the vast majority of you that do get cancelled you will be qualified for an ACA policy that far and away exceeds your old one." if this was all true?
Instead for at least 3 years the President ran around spouting over and over that, "You can keep your current plan and doctor if you like it, period" knowing the whole time that that was a bold face lie. So I don't understand why he would use such a stupid approach knowing that up to 90 million would be losing their insurance in spite of him saying otherwise. It just makes him look very bad.
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Actually it makes him look like a liar. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 18:32:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
So why did the President not say, "If you like your current plan/doctor you can keep it, unless it does not meet the ACA standards, then you will be cancelled, but for the vast majority of you that do get cancelled you will be qualified for an ACA policy that far and away exceeds your old one." if this was all true?
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It was marketing. Trying to sell the ACA to the American people. Short, positive, and easy to remember messaging. Sort of like 11 years ago when the sales pitch included "Weapons of mass destruction". And much to the dismay of "Death Panel" propagandist this will actually help people. A much better outcome than thousands of people killed or disabled for life fighting a war of choice.
So yeah. A certain amount of lying, or omission, goes into making a sale. In this case it appears that about 3% will be negatively impacted. I'm sorry that they will, but a little perspective on political sales is useful.
edited. Change "Just like" to "Sort of like". There was nothing positive in the messaging from 11 years ago. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 11/01/2013 18:40:02 |
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Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery!
