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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26015 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2013 :  11:39:15  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So Christopher Hitchens died two years ago today.


There are lots of appreciations going up all over. Two short ones that popped up in my feed: In Honor of Christopher Hitchens, Two Years Later (nice image in that one) and This is Why I Still Cherish Christopher Hitchens.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2013 :  11:39:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I worked yesterday so I didn't see this. But I wrote about the above photo and meeting Hitchens so I might as well share:


I was lucky enough to meet Hitchens. We spoke of nothing of any consequence. But I was with him long enough to learn that he was generous with his time to a total stranger, and that he had an impish sense of humor, which resulted in what is by far, my most treasured photograph.

I also saw him speak on the mediaís gutless reaction to the Danish cartoon of Mohammad incident and how that kind of willingness to self censor was a threat to us all. And I was witness (as were about 800 of us) to a Hitchslap delivered to a panelist who derided our invasion of Iraq. I didnít happen to agree with Hitchens on that one, but woe to the person on the receiving end of a Hitchens rebuttal. He was a force of nature. Agree with him or not, his opinions were never half-baked.

What I miss the most are his columns in Vanity Fair and his take on whatever was going on at the time that was of interest to him. His prose were impeccable and as I said, his opinions were never half-baked. He was one of my heros.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1467 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2013 :  17:45:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hear hear.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2013 :  19:06:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

This is Why I Still Cherish Christopher Hitchens.
Thanks for sharing it has been a while since I have seen this.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Norway
1268 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2013 :  02:08:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I totally agreed with his position on the invasion of Iraq.

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2013 :  10:12:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

I totally agreed with his position on the invasion of Iraq.
Of course you did. Now if I asked you what it was, you would have to google it.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Norway
1268 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  03:17:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Right, so you read my mind? That's not very skeptical. Or are you just assuming I'm ignorant? If so I'm going to assume you're a gigantic asshole.

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  07:25:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't know what Hitchens said about the Iraq invasion other than he was for it.
What exactly did he say, and what did he mean by that?

By the way, didn't he also say that waterboarding wasn't torture?

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26015 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  07:30:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

By the way, didn't he also say that waterboarding wasn't torture?
No, he got waterboarded for Vanity Fair.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  10:30:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Right, so you read my mind? That's not very skeptical. Or are you just assuming I'm ignorant? If so I'm going to assume you're a gigantic asshole.
No. I'm assuming you left bait. Given that almost nobody, even the people who supported the war thinks that our adventure in Iraq was worth it, except for maybe a few neo-cons who simply won't admit the mistake, your post struck me as just another one of your snarky replies.

I could be wrong.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  18:16:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't say that nobody thought it was worth it. Many think that Iraq is better off now. http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/562/Default.aspx

The majority of Americans think it was a "mistake", but a large number think it was not a "mistake," if these polls are correct. http://www.gallup.com/poll/1633/iraq.aspx


I have to use Google to know or remember anything. Here's some thoughts on what Hitchens thought. http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2005/seymour261105.html

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 12/21/2013 18:19:02
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Norway
1268 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  21:27:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeah the invasion in retrospect was a mistake. But not for the reasons people were saying before it started. It was a mistake because Iraq doesn't seem to be better off now. Or at least they have different but still very real problems. If Iraq was now in a peaceful democracy would the anti-war protesters admit they were wrong? I doubt it, because their original concerns weren't with the end result, it was the process. My concern was always the end result.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26015 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  23:21:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

My concern was always the end result.
If the ends justify the means, should we invade every country with a poor human-rights record or lack of democracy to correct their course? How much more in taxes are you willing to pay to, say, oust the communists from China?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Norway
1268 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2013 :  00:56:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

If the ends justify the means, should we invade every country with a poor human-rights record or lack of democracy to correct their course?
How much more in taxes are you willing to pay to, say, oust the communists from China?


If their human rights record is as bad as Iraq, yes we probably should, but other factors should also be taken into account.
e.g. I don't think there's any conceivable way that if a war with China were to occur the ends could possibly justify the means, since it would involve all out nuclear war. With Iraq it was more feasible.

The net benefit to mankind would be my first concern before taxes.

Edited by - On fire for Christ on 12/22/2013 01:01:45
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2013 :  02:02:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

By the way, didn't he also say that waterboarding wasn't torture?
No, he got waterboarded for Vanity Fair.

I must have misunderstood. I would not willingly subjct myself to torture, and I can't think of a reason to subject myself to waterboarding as I'm certain it's torture.
By the same reasoning, I never thought Hitchens would subject himself willingly to waterboarding unless he thought it wouldn't be that bad. I the video, they didn't even use a litre of water.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2013 :  04:09:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The ACLU said that being waterboarded changed Hitchens' mind about it being torture, but I don't see where he ever said it wasn't torture. If I read what he said correctly, he thought it was torture, but no one should be prosecuted for using this kind of torture. OR, at least Americans shouldn't be prosecuted for it.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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