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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25764 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  09:36:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dredge

Equality is the religion of the devil; a wolf in sheep's clothing.
If you're going to spout evidence-free sound bites, I guess you've got nothing to discuss.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Christian Hedonist
Skeptic Friend

83 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  11:20:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Christian Hedonist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

That in heaven we will not be married.

Does that mean I don't get to bonk my wife anymore, if we both end up in heaven?
Who knows, the bible doesn't really say either way. C.S Lewis argued against it and Peter Kreeft has argued for it. It's all speculation though. I do know that there won't be sex in hell.
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Christian Hedonist
Skeptic Friend

83 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  11:26:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Christian Hedonist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

I'm pretty sure it has to do with how those situations are presented. They are rarely so black-or-white as Christians seem so fond of.
There are multitudes of writings over the last 2000 years on the grey areas of Christianity. Debates/writings on what passages mean can be found readily at the library. Just look up theories of the trinity.

My impressions from decades of experience within, and without church community, is that grey areas are forbidden areas to tread. The more "faithful" they are, the more black-or-white, our way or the high-way, they tend to think.
My experience is different. We do talk about the grey areas or the areas we cannot really know. Maybe where you have an issue is that Christians tend to rely on faith that god has an answer and we rely on that until someone does have an answer we can agree with.

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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1368 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  14:16:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Dredge

Equality is the religion of the devil; a wolf in sheep's clothing.
If you're going to spout evidence-free sound bites, I guess you've got nothing to discuss.

Me thinks that Dredge harbors a straw man of equality and doesn't understand that it's about equal opportunity, fairness, justice, and rights. He imagines that equality is like pie: if others get their fair share, he gets less.
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Christian Hedonist
Skeptic Friend

83 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  15:51:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Christian Hedonist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

I don't know anyone who disputes that. The question is whether the inequality is due to genetics or environment. Most lefties these days believe it's the latter, and that undoing systemic bias can result in a more equal distribution of opportunities.

That last bit is important, by the way: nobody is advocating for equality of outcomes.


Isn't advocating for $15/hr minimum wage, free college education, forcing people into unions etc. advocating for equal outcomes?

A small example is at out child's elementary school. If a child wants to invite their friends to their birthday party at school they must invite all the kids in the class, just the boys or just the girls. They can't just give am invitation to their friends. This seems to be making equal outcomes and doing so leaves out kids that want to invite their friends. Now this example is not perfect. They can just call them or send them an invitation, but it gets at how the democrats think.

If democrats really wanted equal opportunity wouldn't they be for eliminating inheritances? Doesn't a child of a rich family have more opportunity than a child from a poor family?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25764 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  20:57:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Christian Hedonist

Isn't advocating for $15/hr minimum wage, free college education, forcing people into unions etc. advocating for equal outcomes?
Yes, a $15/hr wage is exactly equal to the eight-figure salary of a CEO. Yes, free college tuition is exactly equal to a PhD. [/sarcasm]

Good grief. Do you really not understand that at $8/hr, people have a hard time trying to afford the decent clothes, resumé prep and other small things which might give them an opportunity for a higher-paying job? Having an income that allows you to pay your bills, put gas in the car and keep the phone turned on is the bare minimum needed to pursue better opportunities. That's damn sure NOT equality of outcome.

If everyone has access to a roof over their heads, food, power, clothing, day care, health care, family planning, transportation and education, then everyone will have equal opportunities to succeed (note that "access to" doesn't mean "will use"). Success is not guaranteed, and some will scoff at good options to attempt riskier long-shots. But even then, failure shouldn't be a permanent condition.

And yes, some people will choose to do the bare minimum and live off the hand-outs, but most will not. Most people who are currently on welfare of some sort don't want to be. They want jobs good enough that they don't require food stamps, for example. They want to not have had the accident that left them on disability. Because very few people want to live on the bare minimum. Have you ever seen, for example, section-8 housing?

As for right-to-work, unions bust their asses to try to ensure their workers have access to a decent middle class life. People who refuse to join a union still get those benefits (including lawyers to fight their work-related grievances!), but without having to pay into the system. So no, it is right-to-work laws that enforce an equal outcomes on unequal participants. You've got that one exactly backwards.

A small example is at out child's elementary school. If a child wants to invite their friends to their birthday party at school they must invite all the kids in the class, just the boys or just the girls. They can't just give am invitation to their friends. This seems to be making equal outcomes and doing so leaves out kids that want to invite their friends. Now this example is not perfect. They can just call them or send them an invitation, but it gets at how the democrats think.
No, it gets at how educators are faced with social strife constantly, when all they want to do is teach. The rule means that there's less "neener-neenering" going on. Any adult who says, "Haha! I got invited to this party and you didn't," can be instantly recognized by other adults as an asshole. Elementary school needs fewer assholes and more education, hence the rule. It's nothing at all like the equal opportunity lefties talk about. We're not discussing "everyone get a trophy day" in tot-league sports.

If democrats really wanted equal opportunity wouldn't they be for eliminating inheritances? Doesn't a child of a rich family have more opportunity than a child from a poor family?
The problem is that the rich families have, for centuries, tried to ensure that those "other" kids cannot have the same opportunities, even if some other rich person paid their way.

Brown-skinned people couldn't get into many schools, no matter how wealthy. Women couldn't have successful careers in the military, no matter how skilled. Etc., etc..

My dad had a house in a rich section of Baltimore. The deed still has a clause in it that says non-white people may not live in the house unless they are servants.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25764 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  21:22:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How coincidentally appropriate!

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dredge
New Member

Australia
20 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  21:45:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dredge a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Dredge

Restrictions on freedom of speech prevent me from elaborating.
So... you live in Germany and cannot preach Nazi doctrine?

Suffice it to say that it is a self-evident truth that all men are created UNEQUAL.
I don't know anyone who disputes that. The question is whether the inequality is due to genetics or environment. Most lefties these days believe it's the latter, and that undoing systemic bias can result in a more equal distribution of opportunities.

That last bit is important, by the way: nobody is advocating for equality of outcomes.

I'm not a Nazi; in fact, I'm part Jewish.  One can be privately skeptical of the totalitarian doctrines imposed by the Great False God of Equality, but if one goes into specifics publicly, then one is likely to be punished.
-----------------------
The Left are Children of the Enlightenment (underline "Children") and subscribe to John Locke's belief that all humans are born as a "blank sheet", i.e.., the same or equal; consequently, any differences that arise later in life are the result of environment/culture.
 So, to the Left, it is anathema for someone to say, for example, that a certain race of people is disadvantaged (or worse, inferior) due its genetic makeup, which renders that renders that race intellectually and morally inferior to other races. 
 In other words, the Left live in a infantile dreamworld.  Reality is their enemy.
--------------------------------------
The Great False God of Equality won't be happy until the equality of outcomes reaches the same level as equality of opportunities.
--------------------------------
Just as an aside, have ever wondered why a lot of blind people don't wear dark glasses in public anymore?

And here is mystery:  A certain professional white (German) cyclist has been nicknamed "gorilla" by his contemporaries on account of his powerful physique.  Yet no one these days would dare give a Negro the nickname of "gorilla", as all hell would break loose.   So why is it that a White can be called "gorilla", but a Negro can't?
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Dredge
New Member

Australia
20 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  21:54:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dredge a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky

Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Dredge

Equality is the religion of the devil; a wolf in sheep's clothing.
If you're going to spout evidence-free sound bites, I guess you've got nothing to discuss.

Me thinks that Dredge harbors a straw man of equality and doesn't understand that it's about equal opportunity, fairness, justice, and rights. He imagines that equality is like pie: if others get their fair share, he gets less.
Tell that to the hundreds of millions of people who lost their lives at the hands of Communists in the 20th century. You seem to be blissfully unaware than Communism was built on the power of one word - equality. Equality can be a fool's paradise.

"When the devil comes along speaking in the name of equality, who can oppose him?"
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Dredge
New Member

Australia
20 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2017 :  21:58:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dredge a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Christian Hedonist

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

That in heaven we will not be married.

Does that mean I don't get to bonk my wife anymore, if we both end up in heaven?
Who knows, the bible doesn't really say either way. C.S Lewis argued against it and Peter Kreeft has argued for it. It's all speculation though. I do know that there won't be sex in hell.

My guess is, when you die, all your memories die as well. So if you reach Heaven, you won't remember a single detail about your life on earth - you won't remember that you were married, let alone who you were married to. But what would I know?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25764 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2017 :  09:35:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dredge

I'm not a Nazi;
Didn't say you were.

One can be privately skeptical of the totalitarian doctrines imposed by the Great False God of Equality, but if one goes into specifics publicly, then one is likely to be punished.
I am skeptical of your claims.

The Left are Children of the Enlightenment (underline "Children") and subscribe to John Locke's belief that all humans are born as a "blank sheet", i.e.., the same or equal; consequently, any differences that arise later in life are the result of environment/culture.
Depends on what characteristics you're talking about.

So, to the Left, it is anathema for someone to say, for example, that a certain race of people is disadvantaged (or worse, inferior) due its genetic makeup, which renders that renders that race intellectually and morally inferior to other races.
Oh, intellectual and moral characteristics? Yes, you're full of crap.

In other words, the Left live in a infantile dreamworld.  Reality is their enemy.
Citations, please.

The Great False God of Equality won't be happy until the equality of outcomes reaches the same level as equality of opportunities.
Citations, please.

Just as an aside, have ever wondered why a lot of blind people don't wear dark glasses in public anymore?
Nope. They can wear whatever they want. Their eyewear decisions neither break my leg nor pick my pocket, so why should I care?

And here is mystery:  A certain professional white (German) cyclist has been nicknamed "gorilla" by his contemporaries on account of his powerful physique.  Yet no one these days would dare give a Negro the nickname of "gorilla", as all hell would break loose.   So why is it that a White can be called "gorilla", but a Negro can't?
Because of thousands of years of active white bigotry and oppression, with frequent (and continuing) insinuations (or outright equivocations) that black people are somehow sub-human apes.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1368 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2017 :  15:19:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Troll harder, Dredgie.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25764 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2017 :  23:26:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Week 4 in Trump's America

Included is a link to a story about how the new administration is making up stories to support their allegations of widespread voter fraud. The reality is that what's been discovered to-date is a woman who tried to vote twice for Trump (claiming she thought her first vote would be changed), a guy who tried to vote twice for Trump (claiming to be working for Trump and testing the voting system), and a Republican election judge who mailed in a ballot for her freshly-dead husband (since she "knew how he wanted to vote"). Note that none of these votes were successful.

So the total number of verified cases of in-person voter fraud now stands at 34 out of over 1.1 billion votes since 2000 in the U.S. The idea that anyone will find millions (or thousands, or even just hundreds) of successfully cast fraudulent votes for Clinton is ludicrous.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25764 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2017 :  23:24:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So the Trump campaign published an online "Mainstream Media Accountability Survey," which is really a push-poll for the anti-media fascists. (Except for Fox News, of course. Despite being the #1 cable news channel, Fox News is obviously not counted as part of the "mainstream" because reasons.)

There's no security on the survey, and apparently any name, email address and five-digit number will allow the "record my vote" button to work. And work it does, because the campaign sent out a letter claiming that "thousands of Democrats have taken it to try to sabotage the results." As I said: there's no security on it. Still isn't. They're begging people to take the same survey, at the same link, with nothing to ensure that only the people they want to take it can (namely, Fox News viewers and Breitbart fans). So feel free to take it yourselves. Multiple times, if you want. Even if you're outside the U.S.

Clicking that the "record my vote" button takes one immediately to a page begging for donations (which you can ignore). Because yes, Trump has already started campaigning for 2020. That's what Saturday's rally in Florida was all about.

Speaking of Florida, I just found out that every trip to Mar-a-Lago (each of the last three weekends!) costs the American taxpayers $3 million. And it costs the local residents and business people even more, because each time Trump flies in, they close the airport and major thoroughfares. The businesses that depend on the airport, like flying banners down the beach or sight-seeing helicopter flights, have been hit the hardest, because the weekends in the winter are usually their busiest times.

If Trump is a friend to workers and small business owners, then I'm the Prince of Seattle.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25764 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2017 :  22:00:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, and Trump is killing his chances of filling his government with smart or competent people by axing anyone who has said anything critical about him. Ever, it seems.
During President Trump’s transition to power, his team reached out to Elliott Abrams for help building a new administration. Mr. Abrams, a seasoned Republican foreign policy official, sent lists of possible candidates for national security jobs.

One by one, the answer from the Trump team came back no. The reason was consistent: This one had said disparaging things about Mr. Trump during the campaign; that one had signed a letter opposing him. Finally, the White House asked Mr. Abrams himself to meet with the president about becoming deputy secretary of state, only to have the same thing happen — vetoed because of past criticism.
Of course, this President distrusts competency and hates intellectuals, so the fact that the people Trump picks to implement his policies and execute the laws passed by Congress will be incompetent victims of Dunning-Kruger Syndrome (like the Prez himself) and ultimately be just a slew of yes-men will be no surprise.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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