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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13368 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2017 :  21:44:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After today's doubling down by Trump, if the Republican party doesn't break with him, and they won't, even as they condemn what he said, they are enabling this pathetic excuse for a human being. They are cowards. The whole bunch of them. Cowards.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2017 :  10:08:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The GOP owns everything Trump does or says, because they've refused to use the many opportunities to be decisively dismissive of him and/or boot him out the door in the last two years. The RNC convention rules last summer even included an escape hatch, but they wouldn't use it because the idea of winning the presidency was more important to them than good governance.

Lately, it's been one "I disagree with the President, but I'm going to vote how he wants me to anyway" congressperson after another. The Republicans complain a lot about "identity politics," but won't often stop their own identity politicking.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2017 :  18:15:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Trump Resurrects Bloody War Myth in Wake of Barcelona Attack:
“He took fifty bullets, and he dipped them in pig’s blood,” Trump said at a rally in South Carolina in February 2016. “And he had his men load his rifles and he lined up the fifty people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the fiftieth person he said ‘You go back to your people and you tell them what happened.’ And for 25 years there wasn’t a problem, okay?”

Historians have said this particular story about John J. Pershing, the World War I-era general, is not based on historical evidence and appears to have been spread by chain emails.
And from what I understand of the Geneva Convention, such an act today would be a war crime.

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13368 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2017 :  08:17:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Trump Resurrects Bloody War Myth in Wake of Barcelona Attack:
“He took fifty bullets, and he dipped them in pig’s blood,” Trump said at a rally in South Carolina in February 2016. “And he had his men load his rifles and he lined up the fifty people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the fiftieth person he said ‘You go back to your people and you tell them what happened.’ And for 25 years there wasn’t a problem, okay?”

Historians have said this particular story about John J. Pershing, the World War I-era general, is not based on historical evidence and appears to have been spread by chain emails.
And from what I understand of the Geneva Convention, such an act today would be a war crime.
What gets me is this isn't the first time Trump told that story, and the last time he did he was criticized because the story is a myth. Trump just doesn't care.




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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2017 :  18:28:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Russ Feingold from a few days ago:
The lesson from Charlottesville is not how dangerous the neo-Nazis are. It is the unmasking of the Republican party leadership. In the wake of last weekend’s horror and tragedy, let us finally, finally rip off the veneer that Trump’s affinity for white supremacy is distinct from the Republican agenda of voter suppression, renewed mass incarceration and the expulsion of immigrants.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2017 :  18:37:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, note that after Trump's response to Charlottesville, people fled from two presidential business advisory councils and the presidential council on the arts and humanities, but President Trump’s Religious Advisory Council Stands Firmly With Him. Note further that religion, especially the alleged "curse of Ham," was long used to justify slavery, so it probably shouldn't be surprising that this bunch would support white nationalism by proxy.

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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

United Kingdom
1253 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  01:00:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Trump is starting to talk some sense
Only if you're a racist xenophobe. Thanks for admitting that, OFfC.


please highlight the parts of the quote that are racist and/or xenophobic

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  18:02:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

please highlight the parts of the quote that are racist and/or xenophobic
Sure!

By "the West," Trump was not referring to geography. He meant white people. It was "the West" as opposed to "the South," for example, meaning brown people from South America and perhaps Africa.

He questioned whether "the West has the will to survive." In other words, he fears that non-white people pose an existential threat to white people. That's pure xenophobia.

He asked, "Do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost?" Those last three words state clearly that he fears the "non-West" enough to engage in whatever nasty, brutish, immoral tactics are required to protect white values, as he demonstrated the other day by re-asserting his belief that the actions described within his Pershing myth are right and proper.

"Do we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders?" What, precisely, do they need protection from? Respect for U.S. citizens, for example, would require that Trump agree that U.S. unemployment rates are currently excellent, and so therefore closing our borders would leave tens of millions of jobs unfilled, destroying the livelihoods of thousands, if not millions of employers. Trump himself claims he can't find people locally to staff Mar-a-Lago, and so he is forced to bring in people from overseas to do things like clean, wait tables and cook.

"Do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it?" The non-white people "who would subvert and destroy" "our civilization" are a teensy tiny itsy bitsy fraction of the non-white people who would come here to make an attempt at slicing off their own piece of the American Dream Pie, a bootstraps (ha!) ideal that every conservative espouses. Besides, the people who seek to subvert and destroy our civilization are already on the No-Fly list. Therefore, the plain reading of this question is ludicrous.

So, "our civilization" must refer to white people's privilege and entitlement. "Those who would subvert and destroy it" must therefore refer to anyone who makes white people look less like the gods Trump thinks they are. In other words, anyone who has the gall to be non-white, successful, and not deferential to white people (thus Trump's recent Tweet trying to paint the black CEO of Merck as a criminal).

Trump is terrified of outsiders. Especially non-white outsiders. He's made clear that he thinks they are seeking to destroy white culture, and he's willing to do anything - up to and including torture and other war crimes - to defend what he thinks white culture is. That not only makes the passage you quoted racist and xenophobic, it makes it paranoid and barbaric.

Edited to add: if you think "the West" really does refer to the geographical mishmash often referred to as "Western" nations and not white people and white privilege specifically, it actually makes the whole thing even worse, since the only existential threats to "the West" in that case are non-Western countries with nukes, and "protecting our borders" won't do squat against ICBMs or homeboy-made dirty bombs. So if you accept those premises, you must accept the conclusion that Trump thinks you're so stupid that you'll believe that increased border patrols will prevent nuclear strikes. If you think that's "respect," I have a bridge in New York to sell you.

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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

United Kingdom
1253 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  18:08:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was not highlighting parts of a quote. That was massively reading into something that which was not necessarily there, then transposing your own interpretation onto me and assuming those were also my thoughts and labelling me a racist and xenophobe. Congratulations in confirming how deeply dishonest you've become.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  18:15:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

That was not highlighting parts of a quote.
Yes, I did.

That was massively reading into something that which was not necessarily there...
No, I told you what was necessarily there, because the alternative (a plain text reading) is even worse from a moral and/or political standpoint.

...then transposing your own interpretation onto me and assuming those were also my thoughts and labelling me a racist and xenophobe.
The only rational alternative was that you're too stupid to find Trump's real meaning on your own. I know you're not stupid.

Irrational alternatives abound. Pick one and explain yourself if you don't think "stupid" or "racist" apply.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2017 :  18:27:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or wait, did you expect me to do precisely this:
We have to remember that our defense is not just a commitment of money, it is a commitment of will. Because as the Polish experience reminds us, the defense of the West ultimately rests not only on means but also on the will of its people to prevail and be successful and get what you have to have. The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive. Do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost? Do we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders? Do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it?

Would simply highlighting the text without explaining why it's racist and xenophobic have made any sense?

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2017 :  19:12:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Charles Pierce has No More Patience for Trump Supporters:
...I'd like to address myself to those people represented by the parenthetical notation (Applause) in the above transcript, those people who waited for hours in 105-degree heat so that they could have the G-spot of their irrationality properly stroked for them. You're all suckers. You're dim and you're ignorant and you can't even feel yourself sliding toward something that will surprise even you with its fundamental ugliness, something that everybody who can see past the veil of their emotions can see as plain as a church by daylight, to borrow a phrase from that Willie Shakespeare fella. The problem, of course, is that you, in your pathetic desire to be loved by a guy who wouldn't have 15 seconds for you on the street, are dragging the rest of us toward that end, too.

A guy basically went mad, right there on the stage in front of you, and you cheered and booed right on cue because you're sheep and because he directed his insanity at all the scapegoats that your favorite radio and TV personalities have been creating for you over the past three decades. Especially, I guess, people like me who practice the craft of journalism in a country that honors that craft in its most essential founding documents. The President of the United States came right up to the edge of inciting you to riot and you rode along with him. You're on his team, by god.

Are you good people? I keep hearing that you are, but let's go back to Tuesday night's transcripts and see what we find.
One vote away. One vote away. We were one vote away. Think of it, seven years the Republicans -- and again, you have some great senators, but we were one vote away from repealing it.

(CROWD CHANTING)

But, you know, they all said, Mr. President, your speech was so good last night, please, please, Mr. President don't mention any names. So I won't. I won't. No I won't vote -- one vote away, I will not mention any names. Very presidential, isn't' it? Very presidential. And nobody wants me to talk about your other senator, who's weak on borders, weak on crime, so I won't talk about him.
Right there, in the passive-aggressive fashion of the true moral coward, he made a bobo out of a former POW who currently is undergoing treatment for what is likely a terminal brain cancer. And you chanted and cheered. Do good people chant and cheer a rhetorical assault on a dying man of respect and honor?

...

And, I swear to god, I thought I heard him call the Democrats in the Congress communists.
Yes, yes Trump did.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2017 :  09:55:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The views of Trump supporters:
The reason Trump hasn't lost more ground for his widely panned response to the attack is probably that many of his supporters agree with some of the beliefs that led white supremacists to rally in Charlottesville in the first place. Asked what racial group they think faces the most discrimination in America, 45% of Trump voters say it's white people followed by 17% for Native Americans with 16% picking African Americans, and 5% picking Latinos. Asked what religious group they think faces the most discrimination in America, 54% of Trump voters says it's Christians followed by 22% for Muslims and 12% for Jews. There is a mindset among many Trump voters that it's whites and Christians getting trampled on in America that makes it unlikely they would abandon Trump over his 'both sides' rhetoric.

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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1407 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2017 :  14:42:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"...the G-spot of their irrationality properly stroked for them." LOL
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2017 :  10:05:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What Trump has Undone

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