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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:59:36
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Beskeptigal and I have had a polite disagreement over the use of the word, ‘hydrophobia' to describe rabies, she from a medical professional‘s point of view, I from a writer‘s. After a while, I got to thinking about it, and realized, again actually, that rabies is a very interesting disease, albeit rather horrible. As I mentioned in another thread, I've had a little first-hand experience with it, although fortunate to have never had the treatment series (almost as repugnant as the ailment it cures, I'm told).
So, I thought that I might research a bit, then write it up. The question, at the moment unanswered, is: where to put it? Give it it's own thread or stick it in, ‘Weird Evolution; God Off His Meds'? Either way, it'll fit and deserves a look.
Therefore:
Rabies has been, and still is, called ‘hydrophobia' , a rather misleading name. It got this tag from the massive amounts of saliva produced in most (not all -- bats and skunks don't produce much) rabid animals. It was thought that the animal was actually trying to expel water from it's stomach. This was reinforced by an animal or infected human often vomiting.
Historically, rabies has invoked terror in both rural and urban communities, world wide. A cry of, “Mad dog!” was and remains certain to set people running, some away and others toward the animal armed with anything from firearms to farm implements, to rocks and cudgels, depending upon the era and location. The reason is that the disease, once past it's incubation stage, is not curable and a particularly nasty way to die. When the symptoms become manifest, in man or beast, there's nothing more to be done beyond fetching the holy official of choice and getting the hole dug.
So feared was (and is) this virus that, in medieval times it helped to give rise to werewolf legends. A rabid wolf or large dog might bite someone, not entirely an uncommon occurrence, and a few days later, that person would be showing the same symptoms as the wolf. Thus, the person has become the wolf. For a little while.
In those days, peasants used to keep a ‘Key of St. Hubert' to ward off rabies. These, made of iron, were often kept stuck in a wall or carried about ready to hand. An animal bite was treated by heating the key up and cauterizing the wound (s). It is thought that, if done quickly enough, this rather drastic treatment actually worked, sterilizing and killing the virus before it could get into the lymph system.
St. Hubert of Liege is the patron of rabies victims.
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainth07.htm
In ancient Roman times, a variety of cures were tried, including peppermint and other plants containing fragrant oils, all to no avail. They worked about as well as prayer.
Rabies is passed from one victim to the next through the infected animal's saliva, and that animal produces copious amounts of it. This a fairly common and effective means of transmitting a disease -- the virulent bacteria inhabiting the mouth of Komodo monitor lizards pass from host to host by saliva slobbered around a shared kill.
Rabies is usually, but not exclusively spread by small to medium-sized carnivores. Rodents and lagomorphs are also susceptible to it, but due to their size and habits, they don't often contact it. Those that do quickly fall victim to predation in their weakened, disoriented state, or die in their nests. However, they might pass it to the fox that eats one.
However, the virus is temperture sensitive. After the corpse has cooled for a while, it will die.
Rabies is a disease of mammals, although there are exceptions -- marsupials such as our common opossum have a resistance to the virus, and who ever heard of a rabid numbat? Birds don't get it, although there is some discussion as to the possibility of some raptors being susceptible.
Rabies in bats:
quote:
Bat
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/16/2004 : 14:08:35 [Permalink]
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Ricky, the term has been in common use since Moby Dick was a minnow. It is another of the wonderful and irritating eccentricities of the english language. 
I'm hoping that beskeptigal will give us the medical take on it. But I've seen the symptoms in animals, and they are chilling.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 17:25:46 [Permalink]
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Hello,
I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.
In college, I wrote a short story about a character who contracts rabies. In so doing I researched the disease some and also found it to be intriguing. It was then that I learned that rabies is also referred to as hydrophobia, or water fear. Thinking that would make an excellent title, I named my story Hydrophobia, assuming people wouldn't make the connection to the disease until the end of my story. Much to my chagrin, a woman in my class who was from Ireland made the connection immediately. She informed me that hydrophobia is the common name for the disease in Britain. So, the term is still in wide use abroad.
Also, from what I remember of the disease, the victim actually suffers extreme dehydration--the brain swelling which occurs as a result leads to the "madness." But what I found most compelling/disturbing is the victim's inability to drink in any new water. That was where my understanding of the term "water fear" comes into play. Even though the person is literally dying of thirst, the thought of drinking is so repulsive as to lead to vomiting, and they often find even the sight of water intolerable. |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 08/16/2004 19:02:42 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 19:17:26 [Permalink]
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Greetings H. Humbert and at last, welcome!
Yes, toward the final stages of the disease, the afflicted creaturs has neither eaten not drank for several days, perhaps as much as a week. For a small carnivore, the lack of water especally, shows up vividly. A rabid grey fox I dealt with some 15 years ago was an awful sight. Perhaps I'll tell that story a little later.
Anyhow, welcome aboard!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 19:49:45 [Permalink]
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filthy wrote:quote:
So, I thought that I might research a bit, then write it up. The question, at the moment unanswered, is: where to put it? Give it it's own thread or stick it in, ‘Weird Evolution; God Off His Meds'? Either way, it'll fit and deserves a look.
I would think of this as the start of a "sister thread" to that one, just limited to diseases. Whether caused by a microbe or not.
But, it's your thread, filthy: you make the call. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 00:07:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
filthy wrote:quote:
So, I thought that I might research a bit, then write it up. The question, at the moment unanswered, is: where to put it? Give it it's own thread or stick it in, ‘Weird Evolution; God Off His Meds'? Either way, it'll fit and deserves a look.
I would think of this as the start of a "sister thread" to that one, just limited to diseases. Whether caused by a microbe or not.
But, it's your thread, filthy: you make the call.
I'd kinda/sorta like to keep it on rabies until the subject is exausted, then move on to other, neat stuff. Leprosy for example would be an interesting one to cover, mentioned in the Bible and so forth.
But if someone wants to write one up now, I'm for it. There's no law that says we can't return to rabies later.
Actually, I hadn't given it any thought as a sister thread, merely a one-shot topic. But why not? Let's include potentally fatal parasitic infestations and anything else one might contact that would gross out the faint of stomach.
As with Weird & God's Meds, let's keep it loose but, as some diseases are mentioned in sacred texts, and as many have evolved to better accomodate their hosts (syphilis comes to mind), we'll shitcan the no Creation, no Theory of Evolution rule as long as they're used in context and not for preaching.
Sound good?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 00:57:31 [Permalink]
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Well, for one you can keep calling it hydrophobia, though I still think the mis-use of the term does more to perpetuate medical misinformation than it adds to literary joy.
quote:
After a few days to a week the patient may experience a stage of excitement and be wracked with painful muscle spasms, triggered sometimes by swallowing of saliva or water. Hence they drool and learn to fear water (* Hydrophobia). The patients are also excessively sensitive to air blown on the face. The stage of excitement lasts only a few days before the patient lapses into coma and death.
andquote:
Most dramatic of all are the severe and extremely painful throat spasms suffered by the person when trying to swallow – or even upon seeing – liquids. This reaction to water, sometimes seen as a fear of it, is typical in people with rabies and gives the disease its medical name, hydrophobia
Though,quote:
In human rabies resulting from the bite of a rabid vampire bat, excitement and hydrophobia are usually not present and paralysis usually starts in the legs and moves upward
Here are some interesting things about rabies, (interesting to me anyway), that haven't yet been mentioned.
quote:
Although all species of mammals are susceptible to rabies virus infection, only a few species are important as reservoirs for the disease. In the United States, several distinct rabies virus variants have been identified in terrestrial mammals, including raccoons, skunks, foxes, and coyotes. In addition to these terrestrial reservoirs, several species of insectivorous bats are also reservoirs for rabies.
quote:
Canine rabies is still widespread in Asia, Africa, and parts of Latin America, including Mexico, where control of dogs has proven difficult.
In the United States, bats are the leading transmitter of rabies to humans; 15 out of 23 cases of human rabies were attributable to bats, with nearly half of the reported patients believed to have been asleep when infected.
I've always thought rabies was 100% fatal once symptoms started but I found there were rare exceptions.quote:
Non-lethal exceptions are extremely rare. To date only six documented cases of human survival from clinical rabies have been reported and each included a history of either pre- or postexposure prophylaxis.
The incubation period is long. quote:
The incubation period may vary from a few days to several years, but is typically 1 to 3 months.
The incubation period of rabies in humans is generally 20 to 60 days.
So the mention above of becoming ill within a few days of a bite is not accurate but I doubt anyone cares.
I think it is interesting how much it costs to save persons exposed to rabies.(PEP means post exposure prophylaxis)quote:
Accurate estimates of these expenditures are not available. Although the number of PEPs given in the United States each year is unknown, it is estimated to be about 40,000. When rabies becomes epizootic or enzootic in a region, the number of PEPs in that area increases. Although the cost varies, a course of rabies immune globulin and five doses of vaccine given over a 4-week period typically exceeds $1,000. The cost per human life saved from rabies ranges from approximately $10,000 to $100 million, depending on the nature of the exposure and the probability of rabies in a region.
I have had personal experience with this fact in my work. There was a child a few years back who was admitted to our local Children's Hospital. It wasn't known she had rabies until she had been there a few days. No one knew she had been exposed until the pieces were put together after she died. By that time there were more than 30 health care workers who had to get rabies prophylaxis at $1,000 a pop all because they didn't have enough sense to protect themselves from saliva exposure while caring for the child.
Another case involving a kitten in a pet store cost a Midwest county a couple $100,000 if I remember correctly.
Another interesting fact is the USA has a raccoon rabies epidemic slowly working its way outward from the NE. It was presumably started by the importation of raccoons from Florida for hunting.quote:
The variant of rabies virus associated with raccoons has been present in the southeastern United States since the 1950s and was introduced into the mid-Atlantic region of the United States in the mid-1970s, probably as the result of translocation of animals from the southeastern United States (2). The first such case was reported from West Virginia in 1977. Infected raccoons subsequently were reported from Virginia (1978), Maryland (1981), the District of Columbia (1982), Pennsylvania (1982), Delaware (1987), New Jersey (1989), New York (1990), Connecticut (1991), North Carolina (1991), Massachusetts (1992), New Hampshire (1992), Rhode Island (1994), Vermont (1994), Maine (1994), and Ohio (1996) (Figure_1). During 1995, states in the mid-Atlantic and Northeast regions accounted for 89% (3510 of 3964) of the reported cases of raccoon rabies in the United States (1). The rapidity of spread throughout the mid-Atlantic region may reflect the density of raccoon populations associated with abundant food supplies and denning sites in urban and suburban areas (3). Although westward progression of the epizootic has been slowed by geographic barriers such as the Great Lakes, the Chesapeake Bay, the Potomac and Susquehanna rivers, and the Appalachian Mountains (4), once rabies infection becomes established in raccoons in the Ohio Valley, the epizootic may spread more rapidly across the Midwest.
Canada thinks they have done a better job with the outbreak.quote:
In jurisdictions such as neighbouring New York State, which did not have proactive, multi-partner programs, the number of raccoon rabies cases had climbed to more than 5500 in the initial five-year period. Ontario's MNR-led program is so effective that, in the first five years, only 127 (as of March 1) cases of raccoon rabies have been confirmed.
Much of Ont |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 06:57:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
So by the way, filthy, if you have a risk of rabies why not get vaccinated? I vaccinate veternarians on occasion. It takes 3 intradermal injections over 3 weeks and isn't really that bad.
I have been, although it's out of date now by a couple of years. As I'm no longer dealing with small mammals, except opossum and those only occasionally, I'll not get another. If I should get back into it, I'll certainly get anothe series. I know all too well that if you're going to mess with wild animals, sooner or later, you're gonna get whacked. I wish somebody'd come up with a vaccination for snakebite....
Many thanks for an excellent essay! I learned from it.
quote:
Well, for one you can keep calling it hydrophobia, though I still think the mis-use of the term does more to perpetuate medical misinformation than it adds to literary joy.
Actually, except when searching for an interesting adjective, I too call it rabies.
So then, let us agree to disagree on adjectives, for the nonce.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 03:22:16 [Permalink]
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I have an article from the paper, quite a while back. There was a young girl getting rabies PEP because she didn't want a little bear cub to have to be killed to be tested. The report described that the shots were with a 5 inch needle.
I wrote the editor and asked if the reporter stopped to think where a 5 inch needle would even go in a child! In the front and out the back? The real needle size was 5/8th inch. I would have thought it a typo but why even mention the needle size unless you thought it was important? I think the reporter was truly an idiot and it wasn't just a typo.
They didn't print my letter. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 06:14:43 [Permalink]
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In my impressionable youth, I was told of the dread 5" needle. At that time, if I'm not mistaken, the only serum available was that made from chick embryos. I was told that it was ground-up baby ducks -- not even I was dumb enough to buy that one, although I did fall for the needle scam, for a while. Since then, I've had mylograms that used something similiar, YOW!! 
Goes to show, I guess, that you can't keep a good myth down. But looking on the bright side, it's what keeps skeptics in business.
I am not suprised that the paper failed to print your letter. I have found that they will happily print a general sort of criticsm, but only rarely factual errors that make someone on the staff look incompetant or downright stupid.
So, if you want to pursue it, I'd suggest that you write a brief -- around 1,000 words or so -- article describing the proper treatment. They won't pay you for it, the cheap bastards, but they might publish it in the Sunday Edition under your byline, perhaps in the Health Section. Worth a try. I've done this several times and have been asked in for an interview twice. They won't pay you for that, either. 
I myself, would like to read the latest on rabies treatment. I'm a bit out of date on it and advances in medicine seem to go at a lightning pace these days. I could google it, I suppose, but who knows how accurate my findings would be? Google is good, but one must keep the salt handy.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 10:15:04 [Permalink]
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Maybe the treatment did use a 5-inch needle, but only the first 5/8ths was inserted. 
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 08/18/2004 10:16:04 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 11:15:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Maybe the treatment did use a 5-inch needle, but only the first 5/8ths was inserted.
Yeah, but it was a square needle! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 11:47:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Maybe the treatment did use a 5-inch needle, but only the first 5/8ths was inserted.
Yeah, but it was a square needle!
Don't forget dull and rusty, too. :)
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 14:00:34 [Permalink]
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Ha ha, I'll tell you a story:
On a ship I was aboard, one of the Enginemen was in something of a fued with the Hospital Corpsman. One day, when we all had to get flu shots, the snipe was just a couple of places ahead of me in line.
The way it was done then, Doc used a huge syringe, big enough for a lot of doses, and changed the needle each time from a quanity stuck in a steril, cotton-packed bag. The whole thing was like an assembly line.
Well, the snipe's turn came and Doc attached the needle. Then, with the sweetest, most angelic smile I've ever seen on a man's face, he tapped the point on the stainless steel table and hit his victim before he could get away from him.
I laughed so hard, my bladder almost embarrassed me!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 14:58:12 [Permalink]
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Ah, leprosy! Now there's a disease to chill the heart and rot the spirit! Indeed, throughout our history it has inspired us as has none other, albeit that inspiration usually being in the direction of either persecuting the leper or running away from him.
It is thought that leprosy, or Hansen's Disease, if you must, has been with us since the dawn of civilization and little doubt, long before. Few, if any cultures have ever been entirely free of it.
quote:
Until the coming of AIDS, leprosy was the most feared of infectious diseases. Even today, it warps the lives of millions of people; mostly in South America, Africa, and the Orient. The Black Death that swept though Europe in the last half of the 14th century, killing one third of the people, was more violent in its ravages. But it came and went quickly, like a great earthquake, followed by a series of after shocks.
Leprosy has tormented humans since the dawn of history; leaving lasting imprints on religion, literature, and art. It is a deep rooted part of the human psyche, with both mystical and physical meanings. Asians and Africans call it "the big disease" in many tongues because of the damage done to soul and body of those cursed with it.
We know nothing certain about the origins of leprosy, except that it is old, very old. An account of a disease that could be leprosy appears in an Egyptian papyrus inscribed about 1552-1350 B.C. But this is an imaginative guess, made by modern scholars, that could be wrong.
Indian writings dated at 600 B.C, describe a disease that most experts agree was leprosy. It does not appear in the records of ancient Greece until the army of Alexander the Great came back from India in 326 B.C. In Rome, the first mention coincides with the return of Pompey's troops from Asia Minor in 62 B.C. Thus Asia could be the cradle of infection.
Historically, lepers have been ruthlessly persecuted. They have been beset with oppressive rules of dress and behavior, quarantined or cast out, and even burned at the stake for no more than having the disease. The almost universal reason was that a leper received the affliction from God for immoral behavior. This behavior was often thought to have become more intense as the disease progressed.
quote:
“And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and the hair of his head shall go loose, and he shall cover his upper lip, and shall cry, unclean, unclean. And all the days wherein the plague is in him he shall be unclean; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his dwelling be.”
The Bible equated this sickness with sin. It was a punishment by God for transgression. Thus Uzziah, King of Judah, wanted to burn incense in the temple of Jehovah, a ceremony reserved for priests. The priests opposed him, and Uzziah became angry. God struck him with leprosy.
“And Uzziah the King was a leper unto the day of his death, and dwelt in a separate house, being a leper; for he was cut off from the house of Jehovah . .”
It is told that even Jesus singled out the leper as a foulness, for while He healed the blind and lame, He cleansed the leper.
In medieval times, the life of a leper was, if anything, worse.
quote:
By the Middle Ages, priests and savants accused lepers of a host of sins: they angered easily, suspected others of wanting to hurt them, had grievous dreams, and were schemers and deceivers. Medical writers of the era thought they threatened society; n |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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