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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 05/01/2006 : 18:17:46
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http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/
quote:
WASHINGTON -- President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution.
And from the CATO Institute: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6330
This is just insane. Where is the fury from the American people over this? Why are the only people who actually get furious over this labeled wacko liberals and extremist leftists? Is it totally acceptable and normal for an American President to interpret the Constitution however he damn well pleases, regardless of the letter of the laws? 
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2006 : 18:32:07 [Permalink]
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Well, the constitution is just a "goddamned piece of paper".
No one cares anymore. Most people have been disengaged from the political process, by design. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2006 : 11:55:45 [Permalink]
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| I think people care but the corporate controlled news media isn't on the story. |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2006 : 07:02:59 [Permalink]
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From the very start with that scarecrow, the multi-billion dollar anti ballistic missile system, that could be totally confused with half a dozen mylar baloons, the Downing Street Memo, Niger Forgeries, Taguba Report, International Committee of the Red Cross Report, FBI Memo Regarding Torture at Guantanamo, Gonzales Memo on Torture, Federal Indictment of Libby, Rumsfeld Memo on Torture, Abramoff, the class war against the middle class, shifting the wealthy's tax burden to the working class, the cronyism, the outing of Valerie Plame, hurricane Katrina, failing to secure our wide open borders, the president's assertion of both a right to spy at will on anyone, and to declare anyone to be an "enemy combatant," then to strip away all constitutional rights so that someone so accused has no legal recourse, Sen. Feingold is to be commended for at least standing up to these thugs. Treaties revoked by George W. Bush in our name, the biodiversity treaty, the Geneva conventions, the forest protection treaty, the nuclear non proliferation treaty, the comprehensive test ban treaty, the 1972 anti-ballistic missile treaty, the 1972 biological and toxin weapons convention, the 1979 UN convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women, the UN international covenant on economic social and cultural rights, the chemical weapons convention, and the international criminal court, and counting. I still am stunned into some state of mind numbing shock by the scale of it all, how could the beacon of human rights, that is the country i and generations of my family fought, bled, and died for, be reduced to this state of affairs, with less than a whimper to be heard from accross the land?
Remember the motto just after the towers fell, "If we change our way of life, the terrorists win," just a week or so later Bush closed the White House, "the People's House," to the public. Well it wasn't a group of 19 islamic zealots, who shredded the constitution and installed an Imperial Presidency, my friends. No, it was another small group of zealots of a different stripe and faith, who are trying that. With the aid of the grand old hypocritic party and the prayers of the religious wrong, that "old pieice of paper" called the American Constitution, the very one many of this same crew swore to uphold and protect, is near to being without any real meaning at all. While there are some signs, that the public is realizing they've been bushwacked, the neo-nazi's could still pull it off, right in plain view, too. Aren't "War Powers" just great.., fuzzy language does have costs.
Yep, there was a "war" in Iraq, but a "war" on terrorists..? Police action perhaps, but if there is no autonomous sovereign to surrender, or surrender to.., how can there be a "war?" But then our boy, (unlike Pat Tillman a real patroit), does like to play at being a soldier, doesn't he? Not much of a game for our fallen. How many now, since "Victory" was declared in that great photo opt some years ago? Too many for damned sure. Our constitutional system of government is at risk, and nothing less.
Are there any real grounds for impeachment? I believe the ruling republicans set the standard last century for impeachment. "High crimes and misdemeanors" entered the text of the Constitution due to George Mason and James Madison. Mason had argued that the reasons given for impeachment -- treason and bribery -- were not enough. He worried that other "great and dangerous offenses" might not be covered, and suggested adding the word "maladministration." In 18th century language, a "misdemeanor" meant "mis-demeanor,"or bad behavior (neglect of duty and corruption were given as examples). The Alexander Hamilton standard (Federalist 65) is one of a "violation of public trust." So yes, i think there are ample grounds, as well as a need for a historical rejection of those, who so easily would dare compromise the stated articles of our constitution.
A country is not only what it does—it is also what it puts up with, what it tolerates. —Kurt Tucholsky |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2006 : 20:59:49 [Permalink]
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Posted by marfknox quote:
Where is the fury from the American people over this?
The fury is there. It's simmering in a recliner with a beer in one hand and a TV remote in the other.
Unfortunately, true fury leading to action requires a sustained imposotion limiting the comforts of fat, lazy American like me. We see these abuses on CNN and get downright peeved. Then, we grab a fourth cup of coffee and turn the channel to ESPN to see whether the Cavs or the Pistons won last night.
There are lots of things that piss us off on a daily basis. We just have no means to channel our anger or disillusionment in a way that will force change. The best vehicle we have for concentrating our our individual complaints into a serious and credible call for action is the media, and...well...they have thier own agenda. Of course, that agenda has little to do with serving the people.
We have to wander a whole lot further down the wrong road before we actually begin to see where that road is really going. We, the fat and the lazy, will have to loose a hell of a lot more comforts before we roll off of our sofas and actually do something besides bitch to our wives and friends.
I just hope we aren't already too late. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 07:54:42 [Permalink]
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Why do we bother counting the number of laws he broke? Is it worse that he broke 1 law then 750? Is it worse that he broke 750 when compared to Clinto only breaking a couple of hundred? Why is it worse when he breaks the same laws that Clinton broke?
It is all pretty silly. So the Conservatives are curropt, is this new? They were launched into power because of the curoption of the Democrats in the Clinton years (is this old?). Back and forth it will go.
Not to sound urban, urbane or blasie, but quit hating the players and hate the game. |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 08:08:38 [Permalink]
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| I have to agree again. They are all criminals. Why pick one out and say this one is worse, let's pick another one? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 08:44:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent...
Why is it worse when he breaks the same laws that Clinton broke?
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo...
Why pick one out and say this one is worse, let's pick another one?
Nobody (prior to the posting by Original_Intent) suggested that this is some sort of contest or that any comparisons are being drawn. Perhaps one of the key differences here is between "is" and "was". Frankly most of us aren't too worried about Bill Clinton (or John F. Kennedy or Ronald Reagan or...) increasing the risk to our lives and freedom as we go through our day tomorrow. George W. Bush, on the other hand, is in a position to do just that.
Our collective concern for Bush's flagrant disregard for the law is a critical current concern. Tallying up his ongoing list of crimes may not seem especially productive in itself, but might, in a small way, help generate the kind of fury necessary to move him out of his position. Reducing the amount of potential damage he may yet inflict on our safety and freedom is an issue of current importance. Ex-presidents, however many or severe their crimes, don't pose the same kind of potential risk as George W. Bush.
And welcome to SFN, Original_Intent.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 09:15:29 [Permalink]
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| The point is, then you'll pick someone else who may not be so outwardly proud of being a criminal, but who does just as much damage. Such as Rongald Reagsn or Bill Clinton or JFK. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 11:02:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
The point is, then you'll pick someone else who may not be so outwardly proud of being a criminal, but who does just as much damage. Such as Rongald Reagsn or Bill Clinton or JFK.
So, since your point is that the citizenry will always vote for dangerous people intent on harming our freedoms and security, do you have a solution in mind? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 14:08:24 [Permalink]
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| I would say the solution would be to stop doing that. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 14:50:52 [Permalink]
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| If your point is that the citizenry will always elect dangerous criminals, how would you suggest they stop doing that? Your point seemed to be that people are incapable of doing anything else. If that's not your point, then why didn't you tell me that my summation of your point was incorrect? If that is your point, then why do you think that "stop doing what you cannot help but do" is a solution to the problem? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 16:12:22 [Permalink]
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Your summation of my point is not totally correct. I did not say or mean "always." I do think we have the ability to learn a new way, but we have not learned it. Recognizing that the system itself is wrong, would be one step towards changing it.
It's fine, in one sense, to count Bush's crimes, but what crime other than murder do we need to know about? What crimes other than Bill Clinton's murders in Sudan, Iraq and Yugoslavia do we need to know about? What crimes other than JFK's attacks on the people of Vietnam and Cuba do we need to know about? Etc., Etc. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 16:23:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Your summation of my point is not totally correct. I did not say or mean "always."
Ah. Okay. Your contracted "will" (in "...then you'll pick someone else...") implied (to me at least) that there were no other possibilities.quote:
I do think we have the ability to learn a new way, but we have not learned it. Recognizing that the system itself is wrong, would be one step towards changing it.
I recognize that the system has some major flaws. What changes would you suggest?quote:
It's fine, in one sense, to count Bush's crimes, but what crime other than murder do we need to know about? What crimes other than Bill Clinton's murders in Sudan, Iraq and Yugoslavia do we need to know about? What crimes other than JFK's attacks on the people of Vietnam and Cuba do we need to know about? Etc., Etc.
Perhaps some people are more willing to forgive and/or forget a single crime, but can't ignore a boatload of them? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2006 : 03:16:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Perhaps some people are more willing to forgive and/or forget a single crime, but can't ignore a boatload of them?
That's fine if you forgive, that's a good thing. That has nothing to do with keeping a murderer in office. What's the solution? Again, the first thing to do is realize it's the system, not the people. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2006 : 18:07:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent...
Why is it worse when he breaks the same laws that Clinton broke?
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo...
Why pick one out and say this one is worse, let's pick another one?
Nobody (prior to the posting by Original_Intent) suggested that this is some sort of contest or that any comparisons are being drawn. Perhaps one of the key differences here is between "is" and "was". Frankly most of us aren't too worried about Bill Clinton (or John F. Kennedy or Ronald Reagan or...) increasing the risk to our lives and freedom as we go through our day tomorrow. George W. Bush, on the other hand, is in a position to do just that.
Our collective concern for Bush's flagrant disregard for the law is a critical current concern. Tallying up his ongoing list of crimes may not seem especially productive in itself, but might, in a small way, help generate the kind of fury necessary to move him out of his position. Reducing the amount of potential damage he may yet inflict on our safety and freedom is an issue of current importance. Ex-presidents, however many or severe their crimes, don't pose the same kind of potential risk as George W. Bush.
And welcome to SFN, Original_Intent.
The problem with trying to generate the fury is the way we end up pointing it. It was a sad day when they voted no in the impeachment of Clinton, as you or I could be sitting in jail for what he did. Sadly, impeaching Bush would be much of the same, just a huge waste of time. I will not be surprised if this wave of curroption rides the left into power until thir wave of curopption rides the Republicans back into power.
I, personally, am not all that into forgiving politicians, or those in power, for misdeeds. I am actually for penalizing most of them more for breaking the publics' trust. This dosen't translate well to the Federal or State level, though, as I have a hard time thinking people are gulible enough to trust them. Either way, we kind of get what we deserve.
Too bad he isn't a politician in KY, we would indict his butt too.....
Thanks for the welcome.
Joe
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The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
| Edited by - Original_Intent on 05/15/2006 18:07:50 |
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