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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend

USA
427 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  01:05:19  Show Profile Send Mycroft a Private Message  Reply with Quote


quote:
Iran defies deadline to halt atom work: U.N. watchdog

VIENNA (Reuters) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog declared on Thursday that
Iran failed to meet a February 21 deadline to suspend uranium enrichment and Washington said major powers would meet next week to start writing a new Iran sanctions resolution.
ADVERTISEMENT

By ignoring the deadline, Tehran reaffirmed its rejection of a mid-2006 offer by six world powers of talks on trade benefits provided it halted enrichment, a process that can yield nuclear power plant fuel or bombs.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070222/ts_nm/iran_nuclear_dc

Strangely, some are not bothered by this.

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  03:03:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Who are the "some" you refer to? Not that I'm assuming you mean us leftists.

It is worth clarifying for the millionth time, however, that personally, just because I find Bush incompetent and am extremely upset at the mess he's made of things, is NO REASON TO ASSUME I think Iran or Islamofascists pose no threat. Of course they do. The problem is in this time of dire risk we have the most incompetent leader at the helm.


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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  03:42:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm very bothered by this, and don't take it personally that you mention some are not concerned. That's a major problem in this case. Bush has so screwed up in Iraq that people naturally worry that he'll do even worse in Iran. Especially as there have been hints he's considering that. Nor do I think this Administration is much good at diplomacy.

It appears diplomacy is failing with Iran. Military action may very well be required. It's a time when having Bush at the helm gives me the heebie-jeebies. The situation may require the bombing of nuclear sites -- a rather complex and extensive campaign. But I'm concerned Bush will invade, instead. He's just not very bright, or rational.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  08:07:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why would I be "bothered" by one country that agrees to treaties and follows through with them, while countries like the U.S. agrees to treaties and don't?

They are well within their rights to do this. Why are you not "bothered" by the U.S. bullying and attacking yet another country?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  08:08:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why would I be "bothered" by one country that agrees to treaties and follows through with them, while countries like the U.S. agree to treaties and doesn't follow through with them?

They are well within their rights to do this. Why are you not "bothered" by the U.S. bullying and attacking yet another country?

Were you "bothered" when the U.S. was pushing the Shah to do this very thing?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 02/23/2007 09:21:34
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  09:00:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is evidently one of those deals where it's okay if Westinghouse makes a profit, but not a good idea of it's Russian companies making a profit.

See the Washington Post, March 27, 2005.

quote:
Charles Naas, who was deputy U.S. ambassador to Iran in the 1970s, said proliferation was high in the minds of technical experts, "but the nuclear deal was attractive in terms of commerce, and the relationship as a whole was very important."

Documents show that U.S. companies, led by Westinghouse, stood to gain $6.4 billion from the sale of six to eight nuclear reactors and parts. Iran was also willing to pay an additional $1 billion for a 20 percent stake in a private uranium enrichment facility in the United States that would supply much of the uranium to fuel the reactors.

Naas said Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld all were in positions to play significant roles in Iran policy then, "but in those days, you have to view Kissinger as the main figure." Requests for comment from the offices of Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld went unanswered.

"It is absolutely incredible that the very same players who made those statements then are making completely the opposite ones now," said Joseph Cirincione, a nonproliferation expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "Do they remember that they said this? Because the Iranians sure remember that they said it," said Cirincione, who just returned from a nuclear conference in Tehran -- a rare trip for U.S. citizens now.



I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 02/23/2007 09:11:19
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  09:36:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Why would I be "bothered" by one country that agrees to treaties and follows through with them, while countries like the U.S. agree to treaties and doesn't follow through with them?

They are well within their rights to do this. Why are you not "bothered" by the U.S. bullying and attacking yet another country?

Were you "bothered" when the U.S. was pushing the Shah to do this very thing?


My thoughts precisely.
If I were the Shah, I wouldn't do any different.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend

USA
427 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  22:06:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Mycroft a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Who are the "some" you refer to? Not that I'm assuming you mean us leftists.


Some leftists, certainly. Gorgo and Siberia, to name two.

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigalIt is worth clarifying for the millionth time, however, that personally, just because I find Bush incompetent and am extremely upset at the mess he's made of things, is NO REASON TO ASSUME I think Iran or Islamofascists pose no threat. Of course they do. The problem is in this time of dire risk we have the most incompetent leader at the helm.


See? We have more in common than you think. ;)

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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  23:58:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gorgo and Siberia have valid points about how the US has contributed to the situation. And are you forgetting Siberia is from Brazil? She doesn't have to be a leftist to view the US in a different light than you do.


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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2007 :  03:59:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Contributed to the situation? There is no situation other than the lies that the U.S. has told about it. They've made up lies that Iran wants to attack the people of Israel. They've distorted Iran's nuclear program. There is no situation other that what the U.S. has created, which is, once again, attacking a weaker country.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 02/24/2007 04:00:32
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2007 :  04:20:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Who are the "some" you refer to? Not that I'm assuming you mean us leftists.
Some leftists, certainly. Gorgo and Siberia, to name two.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2007 :  04:23:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mycroft, perhaps you should specify exactly what part of the article you are referring to when you write "Strangely, some are not bothered by this".
I'm not bothered by the situation in Iran. I'm alarmed by it.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2007 :  08:13:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Gorgo and Siberia have valid points about how the US has contributed to the situation. And are you forgetting Siberia is from Brazil? She doesn't have to be a leftist to view the US in a different light than you do.


I am a leftist, anyway. With restrictions, yes, and I love a corporation as much as anyone, but I'm closer to left.

And besides, the world is colored different when everytime the U.S. decides to, ah, "democratize" someone, you start thinking your country could be next. I'm far more bothered about that - survival instinct, maybe?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
Edited by - Siberia on 02/24/2007 08:16:23
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2007 :  12:56:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
YO! A Siberian quote: "And besides, the world is colored different when everytime the U.S. decides to, ah, "democratize" someone, you start thinking your country could be next."

OY Sez: I've never lived outside the USA, but this new-fangled machine here in my bedroom gives me the opportunity to read other's perspectives that DO.

One of the glaringly blantant lapses of thought process on the part of G. War Bush and The Neocons is how damned silly one of their primary Newspeak phrases is: "We wanna give 'em freedom." Or, "We wanna spread freedom and democracy across the world, especially in the Middle East."

Fortunately, motion pictures have been around a long time, so I've spent a good deal of time here in the country that I love viewing films from other parts of the world. One French film (the title I can't remember) had this very short, but cogent phrase in its dialogue, "Freedom is not given, it is taken!"

G. War Bush and The Neocons need to read a bit about the American Revolution. heh----LOOOOH!

OY!


"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde
Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 02/24/2007 12:57:51
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend

USA
427 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2007 :  12:58:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Mycroft a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Gorgo and Siberia have valid points about how the US has contributed to the situation. And are you forgetting Siberia is from Brazil? She doesn't have to be a leftist to view the US in a different light than you do.


Gogo's conclusion apparently is that the only thing that has changed in Iran within the last 30 years is which company would make the money from building a reactor. That's disingenuous at best.

If you read the full article (which for some reason Gorgo chose not to link to), it's not claiming that the US contributed anything to the situation, only that the US should be faulted for having changed it's mind from 30 years ago. The article, like Gorgo, disingenuously pretends that nothing has changed in Iran within the last 30 years to precipitate any change in policy.

Ironically, in part of the article Gorgo doesn't quote, it clearly says nuclear experts believe this policy of the Ford administration was a mistake, so the overall thrust of the article is to bash the US today for not still agreeing with a policy that was a bad idea thirty years ago. Even if the country hadn't been overrun in a theocratic revolution, that still wouldn't make any sense.
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2007 :  13:31:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My small contribution.

I think that any country, especially a non-democratic under privaledged one, is a threat. It isn't as though the US is not a threat to other countries or their agendas, its just that when a country has a lot to lose, they have a lot of interest in compromises. The question is really, should we, the rest of the world, fear another country gaining a bargoning chip. It is certainly possible that Iran could develop nuclear power only, with no weapons program. Then at any time announce their nuclear achievement in a nuke. Should we restrict them access to nuclear power, just to remove the possibility of nuke development? It is a capitalist world and the countries are like competing businesses, so it is not in anyone's interest to have new business move into town.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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