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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  04:19:24  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
International climate scientists meeting in Brussels are outraged by eleventh hour strong-arm tactics used by diplomats to minimize critical wording in the consensus global warming report that they had prepared.
quote:
Last-minute negotiations over language continued behind closed doors Friday, less than one hour before a scheduled release of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report in Brussels.

A dispute between the scientific authors and the diplomatic editors of the report erupted over the sixth paragraph in the 21-page summary that sets out how much confidence the scientists have in their findings about the effects global warming is already having.

The sentence originally said scientists had "very high confidence" -- which means more than 90 percent chance of accuracy -- in the statement that many natural systems around the globe "are being affected by regional climate changes, particularly temperature increases."

After days of intensive negotiations over this section, delegates from China and Saudi Arabia on Friday insisted that the confidence level be reduced to "high" -- which means more than 80 percent accuracy.

President Bush seems not to be the only world leader who finds man made global warming to be an inconvenient truth, best minimized if it cannot be totally denied.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/06/2007 04:22:47

Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  06:46:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hit 23 for the low here last night in my little corner of Indiana. That's the forecasted low for around here through the Easter weekend. Maybe Al Gore or John Travolta can do a couple fly-by's in one of their private jets and pump some carbon neutral CO2 out of the back of those things and give some of that MMGW a jump start around here, were freezing. It would be nice to see John bring his 707 out as that baby has four very inefficient jet engines on that thing. Seen he had to make an emergency landing this week in his personal aeroplane that was made to fly 139. Good thing he is carbon neutral or one might think he is being vary wasteful with the consumption of all that aviation fuel. The way he lectures the common American to go green is how he offsets the 1000 of lbs. of aviation fuel he burns through in a year. Al, he just funds the planting of some trees to offset his private jet travel and the massive amounts of CO2 he produces, not to mention his staggering utilities bills for a house he hardly sleeps in. Do as I say not as I do. What a couple of clowns. These guys are an embarrassment to the American people.

Seen over in, I believe Sweden, where a local district was going to put a tax on BBQ for the green house gasses that that recreation produces. Anybody caught BBQ'ing who had not paid into the tax was would be fined. They were going to use a helicopter to look for illegal grillers. This MMGW is a very bad hoax and these propagandists should be ashamed of themselves.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  06:59:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

Hit 23 for the low here last night in my little corner of Indiana. That's the forecasted low for around here through the Easter weekend. Maybe Al Gore or John Travolta can do a couple fly-by's in one of their private jets and pump some carbon neutral CO2 out of the back of those things and give some of that MMGW a jump start around here, were freezing. It would be nice to see John bring his 707 out as that baby has four very inefficient jet engines on that thing. Seen he had to make an emergency landing this week in his personal aeroplane that was made to fly 139. Good thing he is carbon neutral or one might think he is being vary wasteful with the consumption of all that aviation fuel. The way he lectures the common American to go green is how he offsets the 1000 of lbs. of aviation fuel he burns through in a year. Al, he just funds the planting of some trees to offset his private jet travel and the massive amounts of CO2 he produces, not to mention his staggering utilities bills for a house he hardly sleeps in. Do as I say not as I do. What a couple of clowns. These guys are an embarrassment to the American people.
What does this have to do with global climate change? Looks like just another anti-Gore rant to me.

By the bye, we are setting low-temperature records here in NC, but that is only one tiny anomoly in the vastness of the atmosphere. Let's keep this in perspective....

quote:
Seen over in, I believe Sweden, where a local district was going to put a tax on BBQ for the green house gasses that that recreation produces. Anybody caught BBQ'ing who had not paid into the tax was would be fined. They were going to use a helicopter to look for illegal grillers. This MMGW is a very bad hoax and these propagandists should be ashamed of themselves.

References please...




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:19:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by filthy








quote:
What does this have to do with global climate change? Looks like just another anti-Gore rant to me.


It's a MMGW rant, which Al Gore is the most recognized pusher of. Have you sold off all of your internal combustion engines yet, and that includes any pan-heads? Why not? That's what Al and John want you to do. Of course they will be holding on to their jets and mansions as they bought (paid off) carbon credits to offset their glutinous behavior.


quote:
By the bye, we are setting low-temperature records here in NC, but that is only one tiny anomoly in the vastness of the atmosphere. Let's keep this in perspective....


Let's.




quote:
References please...


I heard it on the radio so take it with a grain of salt if you choose.


"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:25:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Bill Scott:
Hit 23 for the low here last night in my little corner of Indiana. That's the forecasted low for around here through the Easter weekend.

And yet, 2007 is already going down as one of the warmest on record. Here in California we are in what is being called “the perfect drought”. So I could claim global warming as a factor, if I wanted to make a silly and simplistic argument like the one you just put forth.

First of all, your cold weather can be paradoxal effect of regional cooling caused by more cold air rising into the lower atmosphere over melting ice sheets and being blown by wind into your local, and other factors. That doesn't mean your cold weather is due to that, but it could be. What scientists look at are trends. And the historical trends of temperatures on earth, whether cold or hot, follow the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. They are inexorably linked. CO2 goes up, so does the temperature.

Nice try. Silly to anyone who knows how this stuff works though…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:31:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In fact, since so many on this forum are convinced that MMGW is the real deal I am sure everyone is doing all that they can to combat such activity. And these folks are not the Al Gore's or John Travolta's of the movement, they put their money with their mouth is. So let's take some time and all can share their great personal sacrifices to do their share for the cause. I want to hear about the selling off of cars to be replaced by going to all public transportation. I want to hear about the selling of beloved motorcycles because they burn fossil fuel. I want to here all the stories of cutting down on computer time (not likely on this forum) because of all the power they use. The stories of sacrifice from this crowd should be endless since they are a "do as I do" kinda group. You all still don't drive evil automobiles do you? I would hope not. I bet everybody walked to DC for the big meeting.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:37:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kil



quote:
And yet, 2007 is already going down as one of the warmest on record. Here in California we are in what is being called “the perfect drought”. So I could claim global warming as a factor, if I wanted to make a silly and simplistic argument like the one you just put forth.


I have no problem with you claiming that GW may/is a factor. It is when you toss in the MM part that I become skeptical.

quote:
They are inexorably linked. CO2 goes up, so does the temperature.



True, even before the industrial revolution.



quote:
Nice try. Silly to anyone who knows how this stuff works though…


You know somebody?

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:01:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

quote:
Originally posted by Kil



quote:
And yet, 2007 is already going down as one of the warmest on record. Here in California we are in what is being called “the perfect drought”. So I could claim global warming as a factor, if I wanted to make a silly and simplistic argument like the one you just put forth.


I have no problem with you claiming that GW may/is a factor. It is when you toss in the MM part that I become skeptical.

quote:
They are inexorably linked. CO2 goes up, so does the temperature.



True, even before the industrial revolution.



quote:
Nice try. Silly to anyone who knows how this stuff works though…


You know somebody?


The rise in CO2 in the atmosphere has been rising steadily since the beginning of the industrial revolution, at rates unseen before, and to a much higher level then the normal warming and cooling cycles of the past. This is a fact. Core samples of ice have shown both the cycles and the abrupt rise in the level of CO2 over the last 150 years.

Draw your own conclusion…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:27:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by [b]Kil[/b



quote:

The rise in CO2 in the atmosphere has been rising steadily since the beginning of the industrial revolution, at rates unseen before, and to a much higher level then the normal warming and cooling cycles of the past. This is a fact. Core samples of ice have shown both the cycles and the abrupt rise in the level of CO2 over the last 150 years.



Your source please.



quote:
Draw your own conclusion…


I am working out it.

Kil, if I am not mistaken didn't you take a private flight out to Vegas last year? You know that is not the most efficient way to travel as far as releasing GH gasses into the atmosphere, right? So I can only assume that you have bought some carbon credits from Al Gore so that your status can remain carbon neutral and the aviation fuel that was released will now be "offset." You better have knowing the state of the world climate and all that.

Any other sacrifices to speak of in your personal effort to cut GH gasses?


"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

Edited by - Bill scott on 04/06/2007 08:30:40
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:52:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
You know that is not the most efficient way to travel as far as releasing GH gasses into the atmosphere, right?


Source please. Specifically, if you take the # of people on the flight and divide out the release so we have a per/person amount, then calculate the amount that would be released from each person driving a typical car the same distance.

Perhaps someone could provide how much would be saved/lost if everyone who drove a distance over 300 miles took a flight instead in a calendar year.

I don't know the answer.. if anyone can provide this info I would appreciate it.

I am traveling from Pensacola, FL to Orlando, FL next week. Instead of driving (round trip of 900 miles via google maps), I am flying (round trip of 754 miles direct flight). So I would be genuinely interested to know how much is being saved/lost by flying.


by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 04/06/2007 08:53:23
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:53:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't do a damn thing about global warming except do what I can to increase it. Does that mean that there is no human caused global warming?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  09:15:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gorgo, I live in Virginia where it already gets to 100 degrees in the Summer. If it gets one degree hotter I'm gonna kick your ass!

(With thanks to Hank Hill.)

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  09:36:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Gorgo, I live in Virginia where it already gets to 100 degrees in the Summer. If it gets one degree hotter I'm gonna kick your ass!

(With thanks to Hank Hill.)



I live there too now just outside Richmond. When I retire 80 years from now, I'll take a couple of weeks and figure out how to use the GRTC. Then Richmond's historic Shockoe Bottom will be Shockoe Lake thanks to Global Warming and there will be fewer Richmonders trying to ride.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  11:23:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

quote:
Originally posted by filthy








quote:
What does this have to do with global climate change? Looks like just another anti-Gore rant to me.


It's a MMGW rant, which Al Gore is the most recognized pusher of. Have you sold off all of your internal combustion engines yet, and that includes any pan-heads? Why not? That's what Al and John want you to do. Of course they will be holding on to their jets and mansions as they bought (paid off) carbon credits to offset their glutinous behavior.


quote:
By the bye, we are setting low-temperature records here in NC, but that is only one tiny anomoly in the vastness of the atmosphere. Let's keep this in perspective....


Let's.




quote:
References please...


I heard it on the radio so take it with a grain of salt if you choose.



What show.... Rush, mayhap? If so, I'll need a shovel for my salt.

You're tossing out straw men once again, Bill.

Unfortunately, we can't simply go to some other fuel like changing gears. Would that we could but it just ain't on.

It really doesn't matter what the cause(s) are, it's happening. Add that to the population bomb, and not too far down the road, we may well have some problems that are hidious to contemplate.

Personally, I'm on the side of studious research done by qualified people, not talk-show motormouths.

By the bye, even though I live in a rural area, I seldom drive more than some 30 miles a week, usually less, and then use the bike, if health and weather permit.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  12:30:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whilst checking out the news, I happened upon this, and it pretty well sums up some of own my thoughts on the matter.
quote:
More Powerful Than We Imagine
When It Comes to Damage Humankind Can Wreak on Planet Earth, People Have a Way of Making the Far-Fetched Come to Fruition.

by Craig Bowron

You've heard the facts about global warming, but it all seems so unimaginable, so inconceivable, as if it were an overhyped, ecofriendly version of the deeply disappointing Y2K Cataclysmic Hoax. Could it be true?So forget the facts for a moment and focus on precedent: We humans have a history of underestimating ourselves, and what human civilization can do. Sure, there's a certain humility, a certain anti-hubris that makes global warming skepticism rather attractive (”we tiny humans are simply incapable of triggering planetary changes”). But the track record of Homo sapiens suggests otherwise.

In short, if there is any way at all to fuck everything up, we'll find it and do it. Read on...





"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  12:43:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
We are the man behind the curtain. We are the great and powerful Oz.




There is some truth to this being a possibility, but right now, it's the corporatocracy that is OZ, and the corporate media that is the curtain.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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