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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2007 :  21:44:17  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Netherlands Creationist Johan Huibers has a dream straight out of the Old Testament. He's completing a "replica" of Noah's Ark. Though it uses a mere 1/5 of the amount of wood as the mythical ship, Huibers' Ark is a wooden structure built upon a modern steel framework.


Huibers' Ark in Schagen, Netherlands


Huibers may have revealed a lot more truth than he'd intended, when he said:
quote:
"And just think, Noah did it alone and without modern tools. It's unimaginable, no?" says Huibers, an energetic 47-year-old contractor.
Not only unimaginable, but incredible and downright fantastic.

Bravo, Netherlands! Some of us Americans appreciate a reminder that our nation doesn't have total monopoly on fundamentalist dunces.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/28/2007 22:34:15

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2007 :  22:34:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One-fifth scale? Perhaps when it's done he'll try to take pairs from just 2,800 species of mammals and reptiles out for a drowning. Then we can point out that he should have taken seven each of the "clean" ones, anyway.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2007 :  22:36:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just now corrected that, Dave, after noticing the 1/5th referred to the amount of wood used. The guy does want to build a full-scale Ark later on. Great business for the steel mills!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2007 :  23:07:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nah, the one-fifth figure is correct overall:
While spectacular, it holds only about a fifth as many cubic cubits as Noah's would have, according to most biblical scholars.
He's going to wuss out on the animals, though:
He plans to stock his ark with a collection of farmyard animals such as horses, lambs, chickens and rabbits, plus an exhibition on more exotic creatures.

He hopes to set sail in September - displaying the ark as a combination religious monument, museum, and petting zoo.
And without the steel, it'd be just about guaranteed that the thing would snap apart at that obvious vertical seam near the bow.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2007 :  23:14:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BTW, despite numerous comments here in the past about the impossibility of a wooden ship the size of the Ark, I believe I know a way that an almost entirely wooden ship that size could be built, and be structurally sound. But the nutty fundies haven't figured it out yet. It involves building along the lines of Chinese junks. They were built up of box-like, separately water-tight compartments, connected together for strength and seaworthiness.

The largest junks of Chinese explorer's Zheng He's fleets were the 146-meter-long "Treasure Ships." Notably, the mythical Ark would have been only about 137 meters long.

Of course, Noah is nowhere described as a Chinese shipbuilder, and even if he'd somehow used later Chinese maritime technology, that would only put a huge, slab-sided, rudderless vessel on the high seas, and would do nothing to solve the enormous problems of collecting, controlling, or caring for a huge number of animals -- including dinosaurs! -- for about a year.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  02:10:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

BTW, despite numerous comments here in the past about the impossibility of a wooden ship the size of the Ark, I believe I know a way that an almost entirely wooden ship that size could be built, and be structurally sound. But the nutty fundies haven't figured it out yet. It involves building along the lines of Chinese junks. They were built up of box-like, separately water-tight compartments, connected together for strength and seaworthiness.

The largest junks of Chinese explorer's Zheng He's fleets were the 146-meter-long "Treasure Ships." Notably, the mythical Ark would have been only about 137 meters long.

Of course, Noah is nowhere described as a Chinese shipbuilder, and even if he'd somehow used later Chinese maritime technology, that would only put a huge, slab-sided, rudderless vessel on the high seas, and would do nothing to solve the enormous problems of collecting, controlling, or caring for a huge number of animals -- including dinosaurs! -- for about a year.



Another opportunity for the Bible to have been correct but wasn't. We can add that to the list of simple things the Bible misses but which any god should know.


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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  02:34:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The answer is a simple one: the original tellers of the Ark story had never been to sea, and, like many another, didn't know what they were talking about. From there, the irrationality of religion took over and such nit-picking no longer mattered.

I note that steel is not used just for bracing; the whole hull is steel.
quote:
As described in Genesis, Noah used "gopher wood" to build his ark. Johan's Ark is constructed with American cedar and Norwegian pine - on top of a seaworthy steel hull.
Dunno if he glued the straking over the hull, or what.

I'd be interested to see, but not experience, how that pig rides in a little weather. It looks as if it'd pound your teeth loose. If our Dutchman friend is serious about livestock aboard, I'm also wondering about waste disposal and feeding facilities. Barnyard denizens shit a lot.

Actually, I think it's kinda neat and might be fun to cruise on, as long as you never took it far to sea. Or ventured below decks....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 04/29/2007 02:36:49
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1988 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  05:55:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Noah's Ark...the bible's very own bulge-mobile.

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  05:56:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Too bad there are no dinosaurs left to put in it, though he could start with some alligators and crocodiles. Perhaps some zoo would loan him some elephants and lions and impala.. should mix well.

Edit: On a separate note: I would like to know how Noah got the animals from the Galapagos Islands on the ark, and then how he got them back on the Islands.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 04/29/2007 06:17:49
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  06:24:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Nah, the one-fifth figure is correct overall:
While spectacular, it holds only about a fifth as many cubic cubits as Noah's would have, according to most biblical scholars.
He's going to wuss out on the animals, though:
He plans to stock his ark with a collection of farmyard animals such as horses, lambs, chickens and rabbits, plus an exhibition on more exotic creatures.

He hopes to set sail in September - displaying the ark as a combination religious monument, museum, and petting zoo.
And without the steel, it'd be just about guaranteed that the thing would snap apart at that obvious vertical seam near the bow.

That's a pretty obvious weak-point, Dave. Kil should spot that in a glance, as well. The planks should be offset like bricks, one level to the next. But that would probably cost a bit more.

It seems this thing is essentially more than a steel ship, with wood for decoration. It's hard to imagine this guy's sincere, when he's dishonest even in the construction. He's built a facade of an Ark.




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  06:27:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a puff adder, and I know where I can get a very snappy, 7' nile monitor.



Of course, he'll have to forget about keeping chickens and such.... unless.... unless he cuts a deal with God and gets them all made into vegatarians like they were in the Garden.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 04/29/2007 06:27:41
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  06:38:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

The answer is a simple one: the original tellers of the Ark story had never been to sea, and, like many another, didn't know what they were talking about. From there, the irrationality of religion took over and such nit-picking no longer mattered.

I note that steel is not used just for bracing; the whole hull is steel.
quote:
As described in Genesis, Noah used "gopher wood" to build his ark. Johan's Ark is constructed with American cedar and Norwegian pine - on top of a seaworthy steel hull.
Dunno if he glued the straking over the hull, or what.

I'd be interested to see, but not experience, how that pig rides in a little weather. It looks as if it'd pound your teeth loose. If our Dutchman friend is serious about livestock aboard, I'm also wondering about waste disposal and feeding facilities. Barnyard denizens shit a lot.

Actually, I think it's kinda neat and might be fun to cruise on, as long as you never took it far to sea. Or ventured below decks....





Geeze, I better read more carefully! I thought it was "just" the framewok that was steel, not the hull itself. The damned thing's a total, pious fraud, along with its builder!

I suggest that we skeptics will have to build an Ark ourselves, using authentic stone age desert sheepherder maritime technology, if we expect to see it done "Biblically." That would be a vessel made of either cedar, or reeds, according to the Jewish Dictionary's translations of "gopher wood." Dare fundies to man it, let them load it up with period supplies, and animals, and launch it when there's a good, offshore wind. See if they last a year.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/29/2007 06:56:55
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  07:02:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Dare fundies to man it, let them load it up with period supplies, and animals, and launch it when there's a good, offshore wind. See if they last a year.


It doesn't matter, because

1) you are not allowed to test the chrisitian god
2) you cannot pray to the christian god, because if what you ask for is against His Great Plan, it won't be answered. At least the Muslims are more honest about it, using "God Willing" at the end of their statements about the future.
3) Noah did it with god's help, so it doesn't matter what the science says (just like the book of genesis and exodus), and it doesn't matter if the Bible left out some details.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  09:17:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
Dare fundies to man it, let them load it up with period supplies, and animals, and launch it when there's a good, offshore wind. See if they last a year.


quote:
It doesn't matter, because

1) you are not allowed to test the chrisitian god

Mainly because it's impossible to catch or even locate the rascal.

quote:
2) you cannot pray to the christian god, because if what you ask for is against His Great Plan, it won't be answered. At least the Muslims are more honest about it, using "God Willing" at the end of their statements about the future.

This is an excellent example of ducking responsibility. If what comes to pass is less than satisfactory, blame God.

quote:
3) Noah did it with god's help, so it doesn't matter what the science says (just like the book of genesis and exodus), and it doesn't matter if the Bible left out some details.

Damn straight! Is the Bible a mere shipbuilders guide? Certainly not, and neither are Aesop's Fables.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 04/29/2007 09:19:40
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1988 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  10:26:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to the fairy tale, the ark's measurement, taken from the above link, would yield apx. 320,000 square feet of storage space. What's the ballpark number of animal species on good old mother Earth? Something around 15,000,000. That'd give an average of 0.0213 square feet per creature. Course, there's the opposite sex to consider; so, split that 0.0213 square foot of space in half.
Yep, god do work in mysterious ways.

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2007 :  16:34:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Amazingly (or not?), this story is the most emailed article today at CNN...
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