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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 05/23/2007 : 18:48:35
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10 simple ways to save yourself from messing up your life
This might have been better posted under "General Skepticism" as I see it as a skeptical response to conventional self-help concepts. To some degree it could also go in humor.
My favorite part: | Don't worry about about your personality. You don't really have one. |
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 18:57:50 [Permalink]
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My Favorite:
| Who cares about your opinion anyway? |
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"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 00:06:35 [Permalink]
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Somewhat redundant and it assumes you hate yourself. I don't hate me.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 00:25:00 [Permalink]
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Some good ideas. I wonder about this, though.
Since you can't stop yourself thinking, or prevent emotions from arising in your mind, it makes no sense to be proud or ashamed of either. You didn't cause them. Only your actions are directly under your control. They're the only proper cause of pleasure or shame.
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Who caused them if I didn't?
And then:
| Let go of worrying. It often makes things worse. The more you think about something bad, the more likely it is to happen. |
In some cases, maybe. I don't think I'll cause a hurricane. Will I? And isn't this a way to change our supposedly unchangeable emotions?
like this:
| Ease up on the internal life commentary. If you want to be happy, stop telling yourself you're miserable. |
and:
| Give up on feeling guilty. Guilt changes nothing. |
Either my thoughts and emotions are mine, or they aren't. On the one hand, they seem to be saying that I can change how I think, and therefore change my emotional reactions, but on the other hand they're saying I can't. Which is it?
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 05/24/2007 00:28:23 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 03:32:26 [Permalink]
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bgal wrote: | Somewhat redundant and it assumes you hate yourself. I don't hate me. |
I don't think it assumes people hate themselves. I think it is being a bit tongue in cheek about self depreciation and excessive self criticism and evaluation, which plenty of people do.
Gorgo said | Who caused them (thoughts and feelings) if I didn't? |
I think it is referring to intention. Yesterday I felt depressed. I intended to feel good, and I went and completed all my responsibilities, attempting to ward off or wait out the feelings, but I still felt depressed regardless. I also have an irrational fear of zombies (don't make fun! I know they aren't real, I said irrational). Sometimes when I am tired, thoughts of zombies pop up in my head and I feel scared. I don't have control over these thoughts and feelings (wish I did!), only over how I react to them – I think that is all the article is saying.
| In some cases, maybe. I don't think I'll cause a hurricane. Will I? And isn't this a way to change our supposedly unchangeable emotions? |
I think it is pretty clear that the article wasn't saying worrying will cause things like hurricanes, especially since the very next sentence was: | When you're hair-trigger primed to notice the first sign of trouble, you'll surely find something close enough to convince yourself it's come. |
Also, the article didn't say you have no power to change your emotions or how you think. It said that you can't stop thoughts and emotions from “arising in your mind”.
| Either my thoughts and emotions are mine, or they aren't. |
The article never suggests that your thoughts and emotions aren't your own. It essentially says that your conscious mind isn't in enough control of your thoughts and emotions for you to be ashamed or proud of them, and that the real emphasis should be on actions.
Edited to add: Obviously if you go forward with the most personally desirable and productive actions, that will influence your future thoughts and feelings. This isn't a way to directly control your thoughts and emotion, but it can result in a positive change of them. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 05/24/2007 03:35:09 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 03:46:17 [Permalink]
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The article says that you didn't cause your thought or emotions. Who did?
If it wasn't your decision to be depressed, whose was it? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 04:31:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
The article says that you didn't cause your thought or emotions. Who did?
If it wasn't your decision to be depressed, whose was it?
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I'm with Marf on this. I don't think she "decided" to get depressed. She just did. Often our emotions are beyond our control. The article is saying that its how we react to our emotions thats important, we have control over that. I've read several self-help books (my wife makes me  ), and while they were not written from the point of view of this article, they say many of the same things. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 05:22:57 [Permalink]
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I can only speak from my own experience and observation, and I disagree.
However, this article says contradictory things. It says that you can change your thoughts, and therefore your emotions on one hand, and it says that you cannot on the other hand. Which is it? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 06:22:47 [Permalink]
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| Stop being concerned what the rest of the world says about you. |
This is something I need to learn. However, we can't stop being concerned about what others think and say. We can stop being overly concerned.
With me, the important thing to remember is what is really happening, and not what I imagine will happen, or might happen.
Nasty people can't make you mad. Nice people can't make you happy. Events or people are simply events or people. They can't make you anything.
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Again, saying that emotions are about what you tell yourself about yourself and your world and nothing else.
You have to do that for yourself. Whatever emotions arise in you as a result of external events, they're powerless until you pick them up and decide to act on them. Besides, most people are far too busy thinking about themselves (and worry what you are are thinking and saying about them) to be concerned about you.
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Again, suggesting that "emotions arise" as a "result of external events."
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 06:25:47 [Permalink]
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| Not perfect, but lots of good ideas here, from what I can see. I'm going to keep reading and thinking. Thanks, Marf. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 06:57:28 [Permalink]
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| Edited to add: Obviously if you go forward with the most personally desirable and productive actions, that will influence your future thoughts and feelings. This isn't a way to directly control your thoughts and emotion, but it can result in a positive change of them. |
Good advice. This is the idea behind "Just Do It." |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 08:30:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
To some degree it could also go in humor. |
To some degree, it could also go in "Religion," since many of the commenters agree that the list is just watered-down Buddhism. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 09:49:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by marfknox
To some degree it could also go in humor. |
To some degree, it could also go in "Religion," since many of the commenters agree that the list is just watered-down Buddhism.
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This doesn't tell me what part you agree or disagree with and why.
I see nothing about belief in supernatural beings (religion). That part that I agree with has to do with accepting reality. The part I disagree with is just confusing. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 10:20:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
This doesn't tell me what part you agree or disagree with and why. |
I think the first bullet point contradicts itself and the other nine bullet points, so the whole thing is worthless.| I see nothing about belief in supernatural beings (religion). |
Not all religions have supernatural beings. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 10:43:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Gorgo
This doesn't tell me what part you agree or disagree with and why. |
I think the first bullet point contradicts itself and the other nine bullet points, so the whole thing is worthless.| I see nothing about belief in supernatural beings (religion). |
Not all religions have supernatural beings.
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Sort of a watered down definition of religion.
Anyway, we agree that it is confusing. If you don't consider it worthless, it's because you think you know what the author intended to say, rather than what he actually did say. Or you want to know what the author intended to say for some reason. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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How not to mess up your life, 10 simple tips
