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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2007 :  18:24:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Cune, it was been a problem since its inception.

How much inflation has occurred since the inception?

How much inflation outside of war time was there before?

Did the reserves restriction of money supply help or hurt during the "great depression"?

Who got the gold that was confiscated from citizens in 1933?

The answers to these question show beyond doubt that the federal reserve has been a problem for a long time.






And how much were there?

Please provide hard numbers and sources for verification.

You've asked these questions, we expect YOU to provide the answers.

Thanks,

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2007 :  18:41:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
www.measuringworth.com/calculators/inflation/

average inflation percentage per year

1780-1800 -0.44
1800-1820 -0.34
1820-1840 -1.51
1840-1860 -0.19
1860-1880 +1.04
1880-1900 -0.98

100 years 1780-1880 -0.29 per year average

1900-1920 +4.61
1920-1940 -1.77
1940-1960 +3.81
1960-1980 +5.25
1980-2000 +3.76

100 years 1900-2000 +3.10 per year average

As one can clearly see prior to the federal reserve inflation was negligible. After the inception of the federal reserve inflation has been a constant.

Inflation is a de facto tax on savings.




What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2007 :  19:15:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

www.measuringworth.com/calculators/inflation/

average inflation percentage per year

1780-1800 -0.44
1800-1820 -0.34
1820-1840 -1.51
1840-1860 -0.19
1860-1880 +1.04
1880-1900 -0.98

100 years 1780-1880 -0.29 per year average

1900-1920 +4.61
1920-1940 -1.77
1940-1960 +3.81
1960-1980 +5.25
1980-2000 +3.76

100 years 1900-2000 +3.10 per year average

As one can clearly see prior to the federal reserve inflation was negligible. After the inception of the federal reserve inflation has been a constant.

Inflation is a de facto tax on savings.
Of course, the US economy was exactly the same in 1800 as is was in 2000, right? The same population base? The same geopolitical situation? Trade agreements? Social needs? Social mobility? Technology? No, the only fracking difference in the economic situation in the US when comparing 1800 to 2000 is some stupid conspiracy-driven Woodrow Wilson Federal Reserve regulation. Excellent. Thanks for the childish simplistic conspiracy theory, Jerome. With such insightful observations as yours, I'm sure all economic woes will be solved in no time.
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JEROME DA GNOME
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2418 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2007 :  19:36:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cune, this is comparing two 100 year time frames before and after a large change to the monetary structure of a society.

Cune, the founding fathers fought over the idea of central banking. They seemed to think its effects were dramatic.

In fact, I believe a pistol duel(incurring death) was a culmination because of this argument.



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 06/08/2007 :  23:08:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

After the inception of the federal reserve inflation has been a constant.
The Federal Reserve was established in 1913. Yet you quoted:
1920-1940 -1.77
So you knew quite well that "After the inception of the federal reserve inflation has been a constant" was simply not true.

Yet you posted that sentence, and its refutation, in the same post.

Go figure.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2007 :  06:23:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Cune, this is comparing two 100 year time frames before and after a large change to the monetary structure of a society.

Cune, the founding fathers fought over the idea of central banking. They seemed to think its effects were dramatic.

In fact, I believe a pistol duel(incurring death) was a culmination because of this argument.
And the Founders also owned slaves, and thought bloodletting was a great idea. Obviously, not everything they thought was correct.

Moreover, you have yet to demonstrate an actual causality to any of the figures you post. Instead, you post random factoids, ask rhetorical questions, and expect us to buy into your largely superficial arguments of grand conspiracies.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2007 :  09:50:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

After the inception of the federal reserve inflation has been a constant.
The Federal Reserve was established in 1913. Yet you quoted:
1920-1940 -1.77
So you knew quite well that "After the inception of the federal reserve inflation has been a constant" was simply not true.

Yet you posted that sentence, and its refutation, in the same post.

Go figure.



Dave, yes you are correct, not a constant. Between 1920 and 1940 there was a depression. That was a poor choice of a word on my part.

After the inception of the federal reserve the average yearly inflation has been 3.33% despite the fact that these years include a depression.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2007 :  09:57:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Cune, this is comparing two 100 year time frames before and after a large change to the monetary structure of a society.

Cune, the founding fathers fought over the idea of central banking. They seemed to think its effects were dramatic.

In fact, I believe a pistol duel(incurring death) was a culmination because of this argument.
And the Founders also owned slaves, and thought bloodletting was a great idea. Obviously, not everything they thought was correct.

Moreover, you have yet to demonstrate an actual causality to any of the figures you post. Instead, you post random factoids, ask rhetorical questions, and expect us to buy into your largely superficial arguments of grand conspiracies.



Cune, are you suggesting that central banking is not an important aspect within an economy?

One of the causes of inflation is the increase of money supply. The central bank has greatly increased money supply since its inception, causing inflation.

These are facts and it is causation.



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2007 :  21:16:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another point conceded. The fed caused inflation.

I know, I know, 200 hundred years of economic data does not show anything.

But, 4 years of co2 estimates from two sources that do not match prove something. (read the signature)



The fed also facilitated the great depression.

Contraction of the money supply .

September 1931 had the biggest hike in rate discount in history.

1933 again raised the discount rate.

Little money equals little economy.

The great depression allowed the largest seizer of power from the American people in history with the New deal.(http://reactor-core.org/communist-manifesto.html)

Wait, but America is a Democracy(Republic); it can not be communist.

Ever wonder who bought all the foreclosed property?

Of course these facts are all coincidence; people with ambition could never plan years ahead.

Before the fed, money was usually worth more the next year, after the fed, money is usually worth less; again just coincidence.

Every thing is an accident of history; none of it relates. Haa Haa


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2007 :  03:53:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, are you suggesting that central banking is not an important aspect within an economy?

One of the causes of inflation is the increase of money supply. The central bank has greatly increased money supply since its inception, causing inflation.

These are facts and it is causation.
No, I wasn't commenting on the importance of central banking. Rather, I was arguing (in a roundabout way) that citing the Founders as proof that an idea or institution is good (or bad) is hardly compelling.

As for the rest, I am aware of what inflation is. However, I am in no position to comment on the rest. Obviously, there are people out there who are vocally opposed to the Federal Reserve, and who shout things about government conspiracies and the like. But then again, thos esame people also tend to think that everything is a conspiracy (I won't name names) and they lose credibility.

Perhaps, when I run into some economist friends, I'll ask them what they think.
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JEROME DA GNOME
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2418 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2007 :  08:19:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cune said "I was arguing (in a roundabout way) that citing the Founders as proof that an idea or institution is good (or bad) is hardly compelling."

I was pointing out that it is an important decision (nothing about good or bad).

In cause you are unaware conspiracies happen all the time. In fact the American revolution was a conspiracy.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2007 :  08:43:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Cune said "I was arguing (in a roundabout way) that citing the Founders as proof that an idea or institution is good (or bad) is hardly compelling."

I was pointing out that it is an important decision (nothing about good or bad).
Oh, great. Thanks for sharing, then!! And in the same spirit, let me point out this fun fact: Lincoln was shot.

In cause you are unaware conspiracies happen all the time. In fact the American revolution was a conspiracy.
If we take the conventional generally-accepted meaning of "conspiracy theory" then no, the American Revolution wasn't any such thing. But that's besides the point.

You began this thread with the comment "the mother of all American conspiracy theories!" Even if you were being somewhat facetious (perhaps indicated by the ""), I assume you meant to argue that through the creation of the Federal Reserve, certain people in positions of power sought to use their new-found control over the US financial system to consolidate their wealth and power at the expense of the common man.

The Wilson quote has been shown to be completely fraudulent. You conceded that, but then immediately continued with your argument. This isn't the first time that's happened, and we should all take pause at your desire to continually cling to a conspiracy even when the evidence you cite is shown to be false.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2007 :  19:11:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
CONSPIRACY THEORY:
a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators.

According to Websters the American revolution was a conspiracy.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2007 :  19:12:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The evidence is false that inflation is controlled by the central bank?

The evidence is false that the fed extended and worsened the great depression?

Or would you again prefer coincidence?

The evidence is there for all to see. The fact that when evidence is presented which conflicts with your world view is discounted, proves beyond any doubt that you are not skeptical.



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2007 :  07:35:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

CONSPIRACY THEORY:
a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators.

According to Websters the American revolution was a conspiracy.
So the Revolution was a secret plot? I think that when you write a Declaration of Independence, and have it signed, you aren't all that secret, are you?
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