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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  17:13:43  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_5750.cfm

The USDA's passage of this proposal has resulted in the following:

-Anheuser Busch will be allowed to sell its "Organic Wild Hops Beer" without using any organic hops at all.

-Sausages, brats, and breakfast links labeled as "USDA Organic" are now allowed to contain intestines from factory farmed animals raised on chemically grown feed, synthetic hormones, and antibiotics.

-Products labeled as "USDA Organic" and containing fish oil may contain toxins such as PCBs and mercury (note: nonorganic fishoil products have this same risk, but despite the USDA ruling, it is against the National Organic Standards to allow such toxins in organic foods).


Looks like governmnet regulators are not looking out for the consumers interest.

Just another in a line of conspiracies that most do not believe because it makes them feel better to believe that 2+2 can equal 5 or anything else for that matter.




What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  17:50:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, the new USDA list is for foods labeled 95% organic. That means up to 5% is not necessarily organic. It's not as though they are hiding anything.

Anyhow, since your link quoted from The Los Angeles Times it might be fair to see the rest of the article.


The USDA first issued its proposal May 15, followed by a seven-day public comment period that many people on both sides of the issue decried as far too short. As a result, the USDA announced Friday that it would allow 60 more days for its National Organic Program to collect public comments before issuing its final rule.

Under USDA regulations defining "organic," crops must be grown without chemical fertilizers, sewage sludge, bioengineering or pesticides, and animals must be raised without antibiotics and growth hormones and given access to the outdoors.

The USDA has allowed small amounts of conventionally grown ingredients in products carrying its seal since its certification program started in 2002, but two years ago, a judge said the agency was misinterpreting the law and ordered it to tighten its approval system. Two weeks ago, when the court-ordered deadline passed without USDA action, manufacturers found themselves suddenly barred from using nearly all nonorganic ingredients in products labeled as organic.

As of June 9, all nonorganic ingredients must be approved by the USDA and placed on its "National List" before they can be used in products carrying the agency's seal.

The 38 ingredients approved for the National List on Friday join five that were on the list previously (corn starch, water-extracted gums, kelp, unbleached lecithin, and pectin).



Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  18:21:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where's the conspiracy, bonehead?


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  18:27:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by furshur

Where's the conspiracy, bonehead?





That government regulations are there to make it a safer world for the proles. When in fact the regulation are there to favor businesses that supports the elite.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  19:04:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Originally posted by furshur

Where's the conspiracy, bonehead?





That government regulations are there to make it a safer world for the proles. When in fact the regulation are there to favor businesses that supports the elite.


Have you seen the prices for organic foods? Who is the elite here?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  19:10:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I sell some organic foods. They are generally inferior products for a increased price. The proles have been educated to buy "organic" (most not knowing what the term means), thus over paying for inferior products.




What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  19:29:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

I sell some organic foods. They are generally inferior products for a increased price. The proles have been educated to buy "organic" (most not knowing what the term means), thus over paying for inferior products.




It's mind-boggling to me, given your record of erudition here, that you dismiss the general population as stupid "proles," and even think of them as ignorant. (See the court case of Pot v. Kettle.)


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  19:56:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

I sell some organic foods. They are generally inferior products for a increased price. The proles have been educated to buy "organic" (most not knowing what the term means), thus over paying for inferior products.




It's mind-boggling to me, given your record of erudition here, that you dismiss the general population as stupid "proles," and even think of them as ignorant. (See the court case of Pot v. Kettle.)





Much of my knowledge does come from books, but also watching current politics. Do you really believe that the "elite" do not think in the terms I have used?


I googled that court case and came back with---
(thanks for that one, may I use it?)




What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:08:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

I sell some organic foods. They are generally inferior products for a increased price. The proles have been educated to buy "organic" (most not knowing what the term means), thus over paying for inferior products.




Right! So the USDA is trying to bring down the price of organic foods by making some 95% organic. And this hurts the consumer how? Remember, the hard boiled food nuts will find their 100% food, even if not at a regular food mart. And, of course, they will pay more for it.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:19:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kil said:
Right! So the USDA is trying to bring down the price of organic foods by making some 95% organic. And this hurts the consumer how? Remember, the hard boiled food nuts will find their 100% food, even if not at a regular food mart. And, of course, they will pay more for it.


Ahh, but the "food nut" is not the mass market. The masses are being educated to buy organic; thus buying inferior products at a premium price. That is a double bonus for the large corporations.




What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:19:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

I sell some organic foods. They are generally inferior products for a increased price. The proles have been educated to buy "organic" (most not knowing what the term means), thus over paying for inferior products.



Perhaps I am wrong on this, but don't some of the things which goes into non-organic food (wow, what a misnomer!) reduce the price... naturally? Also, wouldn't increasing the price of organic foods be done to discourage people from buying them?

The masses are being educated to buy organic


Please define "educated". I know many corporations use organic in such a way that it is almost synonymous with healthy because it helps them to sell products. But are you inferring that the government (specifically, education system) is also in on this? If so, evidence please.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 06/26/2007 20:21:30
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JEROME DA GNOME
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2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:25:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ricky asked:
Perhaps I am wrong on this, but don't some of the things which goes into non-organic food (wow, what a misnomer!) reduce the price... naturally? Also, wouldn't increasing the price of organic foods be done to discourage people from buying them?



The lower cost ingredients lower the cost of production; not necessarily the retail price, that is the choice of the seller. People buy based on price and not quality all the time; a perception of quality is created by a higher price.



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:26:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Educated through advertising with the help of government regulation.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:35:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Kil said:
Right! So the USDA is trying to bring down the price of organic foods by making some 95% organic. And this hurts the consumer how? Remember, the hard boiled food nuts will find their 100% food, even if not at a regular food mart. And, of course, they will pay more for it.


Ahh, but the "food nut" is not the mass market. The masses are being educated to buy organic; thus buying inferior products at a premium price. That is a double bonus for the large corporations.




Well, as long as were talking about it, I think the New Age movement has done way more to popularize the words “natural” and “organic” than industry has.

What industry has done is to pretty successfully capitalize on a popular trend. I just can't see where the government had anything to do with that. Certainly not the USDA by pushing its 95% rule.

That's capitalism for you…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:44:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Educated through advertising with the help of government regulation.


Perhaps you missed my last sentence: "If so, evidence please."

More likely, you're probably just refusing to back up your claims.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:52:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Educated through advertising with the help of government regulation.


Perhaps you missed my last sentence: "If so, evidence please."

More likely, you're probably just refusing to back up your claims.



Government regulations are redefining terms to help business sell the product at a greater profit, as the cost of production decreases with the standard reduced.

One source of evidence would be the article posted.





What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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