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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2007 : 07:21:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, outlandish facts which you seem to be unable to discern. Your response has mainly been its not true because is not true because it is stupid. You have yet to think about the prospect. You entered the talk with a closed mind and as evidenced by your last response it continues non-skeptical.
In your first post on this topic: "you're completely wrong" |
No, Jerome, I have again and again noted that there are specific instances where your thesis is simply untenable. I didn't enter this discussion with a closed mind. Rather, I entered it with a good idea of the economic and governmental systems of the United States, and find that your claims simply do not jibe with that. I am more convinced that you're wrong when I see you engage in goal-post moving, and resorting to the argument that I don't agree with you simply because I am unable to properly discern your point.
Why my being unwilling to accept utterly ridiculous claims based on no evidence is non-skeptical is baffling. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 08:24:04 [Permalink]
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Cune, your claim was that I was "completely wrong". Yet at least 30% of the manifesto is manifested in current American society.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 08:33:16 [Permalink]
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Dave, we are not comparing American society to other industrialized nations. We are comparing America to the communist manifesto.
Point 2---correct, we has a heavy progressive income tax.
Point 5---correct, credit unions are controlled by the rate structure and availability of money by the reserve.
Point 10---correct, free public schools
Dave, thats at least 30%.(reread my post, I think you misread)
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 08:39:38 [Permalink]
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Cune, the federal reserve is also a private bank. The others banks are tied to member banks of the federal reserve. One should understand how something is structured prior to making uniformed claims.
It is a silly argument that because a communistic trait is used around the world that it is not a communistic trait.
You are making a great effort; but I am afraid America is a de facto communist state.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 09:14:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, your claim was that I was "completely wrong". Yet at least 30% of the manifesto is manifested in current American society. |
Your "30%" claim is wrong, though, as I've already argued in my above post. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 09:25:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, the federal reserve is also a private bank. The others banks are tied to member banks of the federal reserve. One should understand how something is structured prior to making uniformed claims. |
I understand completely well how it is structured. You simply have very poor reading comprehension skills.
| It is a silly argument that because a communistic trait is used around the world that it is not a communistic trait. |
No, it is a silly argument to claim that just because a communist government does X that X is therefore communist and only communist. I will argue that since the Constitution holds that a well-regulated militia is necessary, that any nation that also has a well-regulated militia is therefore democratic and capitalist.
| You are making a great effort; but I am afraid America is a de facto communist state. |
How it is that you can state this when you cannot adequately defend your own arguments is rather interesting. At best, you're left arguing that you're 30% correct, and yet earlier you claimed that in our evolution to communism, we're almost there!!! |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 06/13/2007 09:53:39 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 09:46:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, we are not comparing American society to other industrialized nations. We are comparing America to the communist manifesto.
Point 2---correct, we has a heavy progressive income tax. |
To call it "heavy" is to compare it to something else (something "light"). What is the communist manifesto's definition of "heavy?"| Point 5---correct, credit unions are controlled by the rate structure and availability of money by the reserve. |
So you're saying that every state that refuses to let inflation run rampant is at least 10% commie?
Direct question, Jerome: is there a government in existence today which is zero percent communistic, in your opinion?Point 10---correct, free public schools
Dave, thats at least 30%.(reread my post, I think you misread) |
Yes, I got the "seven" from elsewhere in your post. My mistake.
But for point 10 to be "correct," education has to be combined with production, a point that you failed to make because you refused to define "literacy" the same way as the researchers you brought in for support did, and then you played fast-and-loose with their figures to arrive at your pre-conceived conclusion. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 15:17:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, we are not comparing American society to other industrialized nations. We are comparing America to the communist manifesto.
Point 2---correct, we has a heavy progressive income tax.
Point 5---correct, credit unions are controlled by the rate structure and availability of money by the reserve.
Point 10---correct, free public schools
Dave, thats at least 30%.(reread my post, I think you misread)
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What´s so wrong about free public schools? |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 15:48:13 [Permalink]
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The claim of 30% is absurd for two reasons:
First, it assumes that all these points are weighted the same.
Second, it boils all the points down to yes/no, when there are in fact many shades of grey, such as pointed out by Dave above - "heavy" or "light" progressive tax is relative. In this case, the US tax system compared to what? |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 15:49:13 [Permalink]
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| Oh yeah - and 30% equals de facto communism? So being 70% capitalistic is worth less than 30% communistic? If I get 30% on a test, I fail. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 06/13/2007 15:49:31 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 17:08:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
The claim of 30% is absurd for two reasons:
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What, in this thread's very idea, is not absurd?
Frankly, Jerome, you ain't got no clue what it takes for a country to be communist. Not a clue at all. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 18:50:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Siberia
Originally posted by marfknox
The claim of 30% is absurd for two reasons:
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What, in this thread's very idea, is not absurd?
Frankly, Jerome, you ain't got no clue what it takes for a country to be communist. Not a clue at all.
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I presume you do not believe the communist manifesto is a valid interpretation of communism.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 18:55:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Oh yeah - and 30% equals de facto communism? So being 70% capitalistic is worth less than 30% communistic? If I get 30% on a test, I fail.
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I was disputing the claim that I was 100% incorrect.
I gave examples that can not reasonably be in dispute to prove my claim that Cune entered the discussion with a closed mind.
As I was asked not to discuss the whole picture, I choose to discuss the topic part by part.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 18:57:45 [Permalink]
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Perrodetokio asked "What´s so wrong about free public schools?"
The ability for forced indoctrination.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2007 : 19:01:42 [Permalink]
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Cune, the American constitution does not establish either democracy or capitalism.
Your retort once again is built on a false premise.
edit:grammar
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
| Edited by - JEROME DA GNOME on 06/13/2007 19:16:00 |
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USA is a De facto communist state
