Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Conspiracy Theories
 Purdue U study supports 9/11 report
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 5

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  19:39:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Originally posted by HalfMooner

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Looks like you all should do some research before you make pronouncements.
As should you, Jerome. Both WTC attck planes were not 737's, but 767-200's. According to Wiki, they cruise at 530 mph.




I was wrong, 767, not 737.

You all were wrong about the speed. They do not fly at speeds of 600+ or 700 mph. Please post your retraction below.


Where did I specify the speed of a 767? I just knew that like most commercial jets, that they fly at high subsonic speeds, like a military .45 ACP load.



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  19:43:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Originally posted by HalfMooner

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Looks like you all should do some research before you make pronouncements.
As should you, Jerome. Both WTC attck planes were not 737's, but 767-200's. According to Wiki, they cruise at 530 mph.




I was wrong, 767, not 737.

You all were wrong about the speed. They do not fly at speeds of 600+ or 700 mph. Please post your retraction below.


Where did I specify the speed of a 767? I just knew that like most commercial jets, that they fly at high subsonic speeds, like a military .45 ACP load.
JdG is confusing you with BPS, I think. I just find it hilarious that he always demands retractions and apologies from other people when he does the exact same crap all the time.
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  19:49:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jerome, perhaps you should read posts a bit more carefully before you start to talk about what claims were made.

BPS said:

Well actually it was travelling at closer to 700MPH than the 1100+MPH that a 45 bullet would go


And Dave said:

and to be constantly buffeted by 700-MPH winds.


In fact, the only post claiming the actual speed of the plane is:

So yes a plane engine+wing travelling at 600+mph would go through a steel column like butter.


And as HalfMooner pointed out:

According to the Wiki atrticles on the two WTC aircraft, Flight 11 was flying at 460 mph at impact, while Flight 175 was doing 590 mph.


Are you really going to complain about a 10mph discrepancy?


Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 06/21/2007 20:16:51
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  19:55:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wrong data was presented with no reference.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  19:58:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Wrong data was presented with no reference.


By whom? You? Hey, no biggie, we're used to it by now.




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  20:02:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Halfmooner said "Everything in the plane was traveling at about the speed of a .45 caliber pistol bullet"

Wrong data
No reference

Retraction?



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  20:04:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bigpapasmurf said " Well actually it was travelling at closer to 700MPH than the 1100+MPH that a 45 bullet would go"

Wrong data
No reference

Retraction?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  20:05:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave said "constantly buffeted by 700-MPH winds."


Wrong data
No reference

Retraction?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  20:23:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can't quite seem to be able to string everything together in one post, can you?

Halfmooner said "Everything in the plane was traveling at about the speed of a .45 caliber pistol bullet"

Wrong data
No reference

Retraction?


If you really need to be literal, HalfMooner agreed to the posted speed (since he's the one who posted them) and has not made any complaints about the speed of a .45 bullet. So that is a retraction even if not an explicit one.

But if you would rather be reasonable, you would see that HalfMooner said "about" and thus, was only making a comparison to say that "The planes were going really really fast".

Bigpapasmurf said " Well actually it was travelling at closer to 700MPH than the 1100+MPH that a 45 bullet would go"

Wrong data
No reference

Retraction?


Show me that 590 is closer to 1100 than 700, and I will agree and ask for a retraction from BPS.

Dave said "constantly buffeted by 700-MPH winds."


Wrong data
No reference

Retraction?


There has actually been no data to contradict this, and it is not at all unreasonable for a plane to be designed to sustain winds faster than it travels. But if you really want to look into it, be my guest.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  20:35:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bigpapasmurf said " Well actually it was travelling at closer to 700MPH"


700 mph is not 590mph

Off by 110 mph









What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  20:37:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave said "constantly buffeted by 700-MPH winds."


So, the plane CONSTANTLY travels at 590mph into a CONSTANT wind of 110mph.

By the way what level of hurricane is 110mph winds?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  20:46:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jerome you are quote mining. The first time I was able to pass it off as a simple mistake. I myself have misunderstood others before. But that you continue to do it when it's clear that you are doing so, I have no choice but to start thinking you're just being dishonest.

Again, BPS said that it was traveling closer to 700MPH than 1100MPH. This is a true statement, there is no way around it. He did not say it was traveling close to 700MPH which seems to be the way you are interpreting it.

Furthermore, Dave did not say that the planes were constantly buffeted by 700MPH winds. He said:

Even with entirely-aluminum construction (which it isn't), the wings are still designed to support several times the plane's full weight, and to be constantly buffeted by 700-MPH winds.



Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  20:48:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Halfmooner said "Everything in the plane was traveling at about the speed of a .45 caliber pistol bullet"

Wrong data
No reference

Retraction?



Correct data. Again(!): Flight 11 was flying at 466 mph (I had originally mistyped it as "460 mph") at impact, while Flight 175 was doing 590 mph. Since you appear too lazy to Google, here are the references: Flight 11 (466 mph) and Flight 175 (590 mph). As to the speed of a military standard load .45 ACP bullet traveling at 850 fps (579.3 mph): Here.

Since both planes were indeed traveling at "about the speed of a .45 caliber pistol bullet" (one a little faster, one a little slower), no retraction is required, nor deserved. [choiceepithets][/choiceepithets]

You never answered my question about where I ever gave a false speed for a 767, Jerome. Since that was a damned lie about me (and bearing false witness, according to the 10 Commandments, the reputed source of your morality), I throw back your own words:
Wrong data
No reference

Retraction?
Someone could easily mistake you, Jerome, for being one of those loathsome 9/11 conspiracy nuts, but as for me, I can't tell what kind you are.




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/21/2007 21:11:12
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  21:12:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

By the way, when I said the computer simulation was "high quality," I was referring to the inclusion of formulae for the interactions of the physics and materials. The rendering itself would be considered crude by modern computer gaming standards. In a contemporary PC's graphics processing card, frames are rendered in greater detail in real time at dozens of frames per second. But, though such "GPUs" even calculate physical interactions, they don't do so with the attention to material science that the Purdue simulation uses.

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

The simulation shows the wings cutting several steel columns?


Yes, of course.

Everything in the plane was traveling at about the speed of a .45 caliber pistol bullet. And don't forget the titanium of the big engine shafts: that stuff is near indestructible. I recall the case of a Soviet jet fighter whose pilot bailed out over the Soviet Union after he decided his aircraft was going to crash. The plane continued on autopilot (unintercepted) all the way to the Netherlands, where it smashed into several buildings and killed a number of people. I remember seeing a photo, which showed the plane, its titanium fuselage still largely intact, in the rubble.





You are contenting that the wings of an airplane act in the same manner as a bullet. So, would a bullet slice through steel?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2007 :  21:18:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Originally posted by HalfMooner

By the way, when I said the computer simulation was "high quality," I was referring to the inclusion of formulae for the interactions of the physics and materials. The rendering itself would be considered crude by modern computer gaming standards. In a contemporary PC's graphics processing card, frames are rendered in greater detail in real time at dozens of frames per second. But, though such "GPUs" even calculate physical interactions, they don't do so with the attention to material science that the Purdue simulation uses.

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

The simulation shows the wings cutting several steel columns?


Yes, of course.

Everything in the plane was traveling at about the speed of a .45 caliber pistol bullet. And don't forget the titanium of the big engine shafts: that stuff is near indestructible. I recall the case of a Soviet jet fighter whose pilot bailed out over the Soviet Union after he decided his aircraft was going to crash. The plane continued on autopilot (unintercepted) all the way to the Netherlands, where it smashed into several buildings and killed a number of people. I remember seeing a photo, which showed the plane, its titanium fuselage still largely intact, in the rubble.





You are contenting that the wings of an airplane act in the same manner as a bullet. So, would a bullet slice through steel?


Yes! You finally got it! Soft lead bullets travel real fast, and do punch through steel. Likewise, an aluminum and titanium jet aircraft travels real fast, and can punch through even thicker steel. Great! You're learning!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 5 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 1.19 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000