Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Conspiracy Theories
 Federal Reserve Act in 1913
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 14

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2007 :  22:15:01  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
President Woodrow Wilson is quoted as saying in reference to signing this law:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."


The mother of all American conspiracy theories!


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2007 :  23:25:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Please provide the source, so we can read it context.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  03:41:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Regardless of what Wilson thought, I don't think many today would claim that the Federal Reserve is a bad thing. Moreover, since we all know who's on the Reserve-- indeed, since the Reserve isn't a secret-- it's hard to call it a conspiracy, especially since the public is invited to attend its meetings!
Go to Top of Page

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  05:12:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the Declaration of Independence would be the Mother of all Conspiracy Theories (MOACT)in the US. This is just a bastard grandchild.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  05:38:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

I think the Declaration of Independence would be the Mother of all Conspiracy Theories (MOACT)in the US. This is just a bastard grandchild.
Nah. It's the Bible. Or the Koran or the Scientology drivel; it's all the same thing.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  07:12:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My psychic powers detect posts about the Illuminati will make an appearance in these fora soon....

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Go to Top of Page

Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend

220 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  08:24:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rubicon95 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
FYI
The following was taken from Chpt 8 Monopoly or Opportunity from Wilson's book New Freedom.
It was published in hardcover in 1913 ASIN# B000NWYEL6

"Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

These lines:
"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit."

Are not in the same paragraph, nor the book.

Here is the online version
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14811/14811-h/14811-h.htm#VIII

I should note that Wilson was for the Federal Reserve Act and convinced William Jennings Bryan (Howard Dean of the 1900's) that this met his goal of a National Bank.

It was quite fascinating to read about the setup.

"People talking at movie shows
People smoking in bed
People voting Republican
Give them Boot to the Head" The Frantics
Go to Top of Page

Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend

220 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  08:35:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rubicon95 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oops correction

This phrase
"-we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."

Appears in Chapter 9 Benevolence or Justice.

Well Wilson said but not together and I would guess not at the signing of Act.

"People talking at movie shows
People smoking in bed
People voting Republican
Give them Boot to the Head" The Frantics
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  09:36:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Rubicon95. I was going to dig up the evidence of a mined quote myself, but you got to it before me.

Of course, Jerome didn't mine the quote himself. No, that mish-mash is all over the Web. Jerome reporting it here, unreferenced, while carefully avoiding commenting on its accuracy himself means he's trying to test us.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  10:33:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Thanks, Rubicon95. I was going to dig up the evidence of a mined quote myself, but you got to it before me.

Of course, Jerome didn't mine the quote himself. No, that mish-mash is all over the Web. Jerome reporting it here, unreferenced, while carefully avoiding commenting on its accuracy himself means he's trying to test us.
Indeed, Dave. (And nice work, Rubicon!) I did some searching this morning and gathered that the quote as put up by JdG was not correct. It's discussed here, where one person comments that
It seems to be all over the internet so it must be true... but seriously: many of the "Federal Reserve controlling the world" conspiracy buffs seem to cite it, but I haven't seen any that actually cite a date or a specific document, and with conspiracy buffs even many quotes that do have specified citations turn out to be bogus.
Ya think?
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  11:07:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The way I see it: The Federal Reserve Act was passed on by Congress on December 23, 1913, and was signed into law by President Wilson on the same day.

Wilson's book, The New Freedom, from which select portions of Jerome's fake "quote" in the OP were mined (and placed along with a made-up sentence) was published earlier in 1913. The book was a compilation of Wilson's 1912 Presidential campaign speeches.

Wilson's negative comments about the concentration of banking in a few hands, therefore, had an intent opposite to of Jerome's attempted deception. The Federal Reserve Act, in fact, was pushed by Wilson in his first year in office, precisely to limit the kinds of banking abuses which had caused havoc, depressions, and outright starvation in the previous century. It is yet another example of effective government regulation in an industry that desperately needed such. (Thanks for continually pointing these out, Jerome!)

Jerome's fake quote reminds me of the freshly-written "Nostradamus" quotes that appeared after 9/11. No more spreading damned lies for Libertarianism, Jerome.



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/06/2007 11:11:41
Go to Top of Page

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  12:26:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

The way I see it: The Federal Reserve Act was passed on by Congress on December 23, 1913, and was signed into law by President Wilson on the same day.

Wilson's book, The New Freedom, from which select portions of Jerome's fake "quote" in the OP were mined (and placed along with a made-up sentence) was published earlier in 1913. The book was a compilation of Wilson's 1912 Presidential campaign speeches.

Wilson's negative comments about the concentration of banking in a few hands, therefore, had an intent opposite to of Jerome's attempted deception. The Federal Reserve Act, in fact, was pushed by Wilson in his first year in office, precisely to limit the kinds of banking abuses which had caused havoc, depressions, and outright starvation in the previous century. It is yet another example of effective government regulation in an industry that desperately needed such. (Thanks for continually pointing these out, Jerome!)
Absolutely fascinating, Mooner. Thanks for the update!

ETA: In a book review of President Wilson's book, published in the Political Science Quarterly in 1914, Charles Beard noted the Wilson's solutions to the problems facing the country at that time were to
break up the trusts, legislate against unfair practices, define the rules of the business game in such a way that the small men with small capital can play it, and then a thousand new doors of opportunity will be thrown open to our sons to escape from wage servitude into the ranks of business men
So much for the grand conspiracy to put power and wealth into the hands of the few...

Next conspiracy to debunk, Jerome?
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 06/06/2007 12:49:37
Go to Top of Page

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  12:37:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im confused, just because he ignorantly cherry-picked a quote off some site doesnt mean he attemped deception.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  13:36:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No more spreading damned lies for Libertarianism, Jerome.


Please don't associate this imbecile with libertarianism.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  19:34:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Im confused, just because he ignorantly cherry-picked a quote off some site doesnt mean he attemped deception.
If you carefully read the OP, you'll see that Jerome very carefully stayed away from making any judgement calls at all. Exactly like the eugenics thread he started, in which it turned out he was trying to test us - and failed because he wasn't actually testing his stated hypothesis.

Jerome had some sort of motive for posting this topic, but only he knows what it is. Whether it's a planned deception or not has yet to be seen, but he certainly isn't being completely honest.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2007 :  21:55:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

No more spreading damned lies for Libertarianism, Jerome.


Please don't associate this imbecile with libertarianism.




Dude you always have such nice things to say.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 14 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.25 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000