Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Conspiracy Theories
 US Consitution is Defunct
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 4

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  14:49:04  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Cheney tells agency that Vice President's office is not part of the executive branch"

http://tinyurl.com/23mgq5

Article II
Section 1

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Although it may be true.

Article I
Section 3

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.


Either way this is another example of the U.S. government ignoring or convoluting the Constitution for elite political gain. Does anyone think this precedent will not be used by Hillary?





What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell

moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  15:16:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just recently read this book. Dick is one scary dick.
Vice: Dick Cheney and the Hijacking of the American Presidency

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  16:52:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jerome stated and asked:
Either way this is another example of the U.S. government ignoring or convoluting the Constitution for elite political gain. Does anyone think this precedent will not be used by Hillary?
This is all just an example of the dishonesty and abuses within one Presidency (defined as President, Vice President, and all that appointed lot in the White House and the Executive Office Building). There's really no precedent there that anyone might want to emulate later.

In this case, Cheney is claiming not to be part of the Executive branch as a weird legal fiction for a very specific reason -- to justify his desire to exempt his office from laws regarding security classifications. The tactic is a desperate attempt to avoid the law, and very unlikely to be upheld. It hardly signals the end of Constitutional law, any more than a burglary signals the end of property rights.

(Mr. Cheney, the Constitution recognizes just three branches of the Federal government: The Executive, the Legislative, and the Judicial. Pick one.)

I frankly can't imagine any future President wanting his or her VP to declare himself apart from the Presidency. How the Hell does Hillary come into this, Jerome? Do you accuse her of wanting to weaken herself with a divided White House, if she were elected? Another goofy, ill-considered idea.

Edit: Grammar.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/27/2007 03:24:01
Go to Top of Page

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  17:10:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed Brayton posted about this on his blog. In response to an ornery poster he wrote:
The Vice President is a subordinate of the President and acts as an executive officer. And yes, the president CAN fire the Vice President; it has happened many times. How many times have you heard Cheney himself say that he serves at the pleasure of the President? If he was a member of the Senate he would fall under the Senate rules, but he does not; he falls under all of the rules of the executive branch. If Cheney really believed he was part of the Senate rather than the executive branch, why did he claim executive privilege on the energy task force? Why is the funding for his office all part of the executive appropriations? Why does he use White House counsels? All of this is nonsense. Cheney is undeniably a part of the executive branch. He knows it, you know it and everyone else knows it.


However, he also cited this bit of good news:
House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel issued the following statement regarding his amendment to cut funding for the Office of the Vice President from the bill that funds the executive branch. The legislation -- the Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill -- will be considered on the floor of the House of Representatives next week.

"The Vice President has a choice to make. If he believes his legal case, his office has no business being funded as part of the executive branch. However, if he demands executive branch funding he cannot ignore executive branch rules. At the very least, the Vice President should be consistent. This amendment will ensure that the Vice President's funding is consistent with his legal arguments. I have worked closely with my colleagues on this amendment and will continue to pursue this measure in the coming days."

"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  17:17:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nothing will come of this. The same way nothing happened when the Clinton White house had FBI files in their possession in violation of law.

See, when you find it O.K. for your party to break the law without consequences the next party in power will follow suit.

HAA, HAAA, I bet you all believe the two parties are against each other.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  17:52:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote

HAA, HAAA, I bet you all believe the two parties are against each other.


Was that a joke? I honestly can't tell...

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  18:01:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky


HAA, HAAA, I bet you all believe the two parties are against each other.


Was that a joke? I honestly can't tell...


No joke. Thats the fact jack.

It is a simple parlor game that everyone who votes either GOP or Democratic are fooled by.

Simple issues and simple sound bites for simple minds. You probably never looked at the long term results. If you did you would find the same direction taken by both major parties.

Does it really matter with the new (no paper trail)voting machines.

By the way how are the Dems doing on the war. Did they not campaign on ending the war?




What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  18:23:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jerome:
By the way how are the Dems doing on the war. Did they not campaign on ending the war?

Yes indeed. And their poll numbers show the publics dissatisfaction with them at the moment.

So, how does this relate to Cheney and his attempt to redefine the constitution?

Is the kitchen sink also mixed up in this conspiracy?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
Go to Top of Page

furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  18:24:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel issued the following statement regarding his amendment to cut funding for the Office of the Vice President from the bill that funds the executive branch. The legislation -- the Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill -- will be considered on the floor of the House of Representatives next week.

"The Vice President has a choice to make. If he believes his legal case, his office has no business being funded as part of the executive branch. However, if he demands executive branch funding he cannot ignore executive branch rules. At the very least, the Vice President should be consistent. This amendment will ensure that the Vice President's funding is consistent with his legal arguments. I have worked closely with my colleagues on this amendment and will continue to pursue this measure in the coming days."

Thanks HH! That's a goddamn riot. Cheney is a Dick.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  18:34:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Jerome:
By the way how are the Dems doing on the war. Did they not campaign on ending the war?

Yes indeed. And their poll numbers show the publics dissatisfaction with them at the moment.

So, how does this relate to Cheney and his attempt to redefine the constitution?

Is the kitchen sink also mixed up in this conspiracy?




It is actually quit simple. The two parties are really one elite. They work together to fool the masses into believing they have choice, which keeps the masses focused on the opposing party instead of the reality of the system.

The Cheney thing is just another "gotca" moment to fire up the sides in irrelevant debate.

Much in the same way the Monica thing was cover for selling missile technology to China.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  18:40:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
It is actually quit simple. The two parties are really one elite. They work together to fool the masses into believing they have choice, which keeps the masses focused on the opposing party instead of the reality of the system.
So how is it that a genius such as yourself was able to see through the charade? And aren't you fearful of reprisals? Our elite oppressors must certainly be keen to keep you from disseminating this sensitive information.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 06/26/2007 18:40:57
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  18:45:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
It is actually quit simple. The two parties are really one elite. They work together to fool the masses into believing they have choice, which keeps the masses focused on the opposing party instead of the reality of the system.
So how is it that a genius such as yourself was able to see through the charade? And aren't you fearful of reprisals? Our elite oppressors must certainly be keen to keep you from disseminating this sensitive information.





I would be what one would call inconsequential. Plus I really do not care one way or the other(the current system is probably the best so far). I just enjoy pointing out facts to the true believers.



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  19:18:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky


HAA, HAAA, I bet you all believe the two parties are against each other.


Was that a joke? I honestly can't tell...
Yes, he is.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  19:59:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Originally posted by Ricky


HAA, HAAA, I bet you all believe the two parties are against each other.


Was that a joke? I honestly can't tell...
Yes, he is.




In your eyes maybe. So what, the world would be boring if we all thought the same.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:24:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote

In your eyes maybe. So what, the world would be boring if we all thought the same.


No, there would still be roller coasters. But perhaps you believe in all these conspiracies to keep your world from being boring. Just a guess.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  20:33:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky


In your eyes maybe. So what, the world would be boring if we all thought the same.


No, there would still be roller coasters. But perhaps you believe in all these conspiracies to keep your world from being boring. Just a guess.



Conspiracies are a fact of human existence. Gaius Julius Caesar was assassinated in a conspiracy; humanity has not evolved beyond these things. What amazes me if the plethora of historical conspiracies that people admit, while in the same breath denouncing anything current, believing that we live in some "special" time.



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.31 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000