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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2007 : 10:21:29
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Well, I'm trying to debate Johnathan Sarfati on some Aussi fundie's site Culture Watch. Sarfati as usual is trying to link Darwinism to the Holocaust...
(See the comments section at the end. I'm signed on as: Roger Peritone. Sarfati's comments are italicized)
Problem is, my reply is too long to make it past the rules. I've submitted the reply below but I doubt it'll make it...Any idea on how to shorten this down to about 200 words? I may just try submitting it in parts, or maybe just having some short comments with the appropriate links. I dunno.
Peritone, do you really think that Prof. Weikart would have permitted that blurb on the dust jacket or his own site if he didn't agree with it.
I've no idea how those blurbs get permission to get on; all I know is that not even Weikart doesn't go as far with his Darwinism-Nazi connection as you guys want to go.
What would Foxman know? He is no historian, unlike Weikart who specializes in modern European history, but a secular misochristic Jew.
Like your name-calling means anything? Fine. Weikart is a quote-miner.
How's about Dr. Dagobert Runes, whom you ignored last time? Or David I. Kertzer?
"Kertzer's book refutes the Church's thesis that the Holocaust grew out of "an anti-Judaism that was essentially more sociological and political than religious." In fact, Kertzer asserts, those dimensions of European anti-Semitism developed "in no small part due to the efforts of the Roman Catholic Church itself." The racial laws of fascist Italy and the Nuremberg Laws of 1930s Germany, for example, were directly modeled on the Church's own rules governing treatment of Jews: until the collapse of the Papal States in the late 19th century, Jews living in these territories were forced to wear yellow badges and live in ghettos."
Have you noticed that Weikart is just another member of the Discovery Institute, along with Behe, Wells, and Johnson, who want to replace "secularism" with christianity. He just had his work lauded on Kennedy's show by his fellow DI members, basically. Not an unbiased source. Kind of like your using World Net Daily!
who is more interest in pushing liberal causes than Judaism. Indeed, he is an embarrassment to many of his fellow Jews; see Rabbi Daniel Lapin's defence of James Kennedy and his film, Which Jews does the ADL really represent?.
Try this instead. Even try reading War on Christians conference contains much about Jews.
Sarfati's link makes use of a far-right religious right guy who does NOT have the support of the Jewish community. If anything, Feder is the embarrassment, not Foxman.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51671
(from that link above)--which Sarfati posted earlier
Wait a minute. "Unimpeachable academic credentials"? Behe? Wells?? Wells is the Moonie who decided to go after "Darwinism" for the religion of "Dr". Moon! Those guys' scientific ideas got thrashed in the Dover ID trial, as well as in actual scientific peer review.
Christian leaders still to some extent blame Jews for Christ's death: See Book 12 of the "Left Behind" series by Tim... |
[Rest of post destroyed by a database failure - Dave W.]
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 06/27/2007 10:23:10
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 10:55:50 [Permalink]
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Well, Ig, you may have to sacrifice some of the debate and opt to focus on just a few key points. I've found that even at SFN, it's best to ignore (or respond in a separate post) some points rather then keep addressing them all.
I think it's worthwhile to look at two points. First is that even if it is the case that Nazi's used Darwin and/or evolution as the justification for their actions, it does not mean that evolution is somehow a Nazi (or otherwise evil) "ideology" or whatever. Europe used Christianity to justify all sort of stupid things, like the Crusades, for instance.
Indeed, this should bring you to point two: Hitler was a Christian. Any reasonable reading of his stuff would demonstrate this. No one should reasonably argue that Hitler's Christian beliefs allow one to equate Christianity with Nazism or genocide. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 11:10:56 [Permalink]
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| Yeah, if my comment isn't put in by tomorrow, I'll just put in the links, with maybe some little commentary for them...thing is, I've seen other comments on that site that are almost as long as what I've tried to post...though they've been argreeable to the site owner. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 11:25:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Yeah, if my comment isn't put in by tomorrow, I'll just put in the links, with maybe some little commentary for them...thing is, I've seen other comments on that site that are almost as long as what I've tried to post...though they've been argreeable to the site owner.
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Oh-- I see. So it's not a fair fight. In those cases, it might not even be worth it. You may be better off making one point, and then noting how unfair the rules are and be done with it. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 12:23:28 [Permalink]
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| Dont forget to say, "Hrumph! I'm taking my data and going home!" |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2007 : 12:26:59 [Permalink]
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Sarfati is an ass. I've gone at it with him, and his best riff is ad homenim. He has little else.
Ok, what I would do is rewrite it in such a way that it could be presented in two or more posts, and don't let him shake you between them.
And in the first post, include this link: Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism
(Selected quotes from Mein Kampf)
compiled by Jim Walker
Originated: 28 Nov. 1996
Additions made: 07 July 2001
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People often make the claim that Adolph Hitler adhered to Atheism, Humanism or some ancient Nordic pagan mythology. None of these fanciful and wrong ideas hold. Although one of Hitler's henchmen, Alfred Rosenberg, did undertake a campaign of Nordic mythological propaganda, Hitler and most of his henchmen did not believe in it .
Many American books, television documentaries, and Sunday sermons that preach of Hitler's "evil" have eliminated Hitler's god for their Christian audiences, but one only has to read from his own writings to appreciate that Hitler's God equals the same God of the Christian Bible. Hitler held many hysterical beliefs which not only include, God and Providence but also Fate, Social Darwinism, and ideological politics. He spoke, unashamedly, about God, fanaticism, idealism, dogma, and the power of propaganda. Hitler held strong faith in all his convictions. He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning. Indeed, one of his most revealing statements makes this quite clear:
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
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And any link that the jumped-up apothocary puts up, call it a "garbage site" and ignore it. It's what he'll do to you, if he hasn't already.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 16:13:52 [Permalink]
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It might also be fair to point out that whatever Hitler did do with Darwin says nothing about whether evolution happens. You don't get to wish the science away because it's distasteful to you, no matter what the reason is.
We dropped two atomic bombs on Japan. Many people hate that we did that. But they can't hate it so much that they get to deny the science that made those bombs possible...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 13:52:58 [Permalink]
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Looks like my original comment showed up after all; it's awaiting moderation.
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/03/15/time-to-trim-the-bible/#comment-21733
Which is embarassing, because I had checked before trying to reply again, so I had submitted a shorter version of my comment! I submitted it, then found my original comment sitting there, waiting for moderation!  |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 06/28/2007 13:56:02 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 10:20:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Looks like my original comment showed up after all; it's awaiting moderation.
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/03/15/time-to-trim-the-bible/#comment-21733
Which is embarassing, because I had checked before trying to reply again, so I had submitted a shorter version of my comment! I submitted it, then found my original comment sitting there, waiting for moderation!
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Aggh, we'll see: it seems to vacillate between leaving out my comment or saying that it's awaiting moderation!
Well, I've tried again, just in case:
[quote]
What would Foxman know? He is no historian, unlike Weikart who specializes in modern European history, but a secular misochristic Jew.
Like your name-calling means anything? Fine. Weikart is a quote-miner. For more historians, Allen, Ann Taylor. 2006. Review of From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany or Larry Arnhart?
Besides, Weikart is just a fellow member, along with Wells and Behe, of the Discovery Institute who got thrashed at the Dover trial. The Discovery Institute is a religious right institution set up to get Christianity to be the basis for modern culture. Weikart, at best, is not an unbiased source. He most definitely has an agenda. At "Darwin's Deadly Legacy" Weikart just shared the stage with his co-workers.
Since Sarfati claims that Luther's and the Church's anti-semitism is somehow different than Hitler's, he should do some reading: David I. Kertzer or Dagobert Runes, whom Sarfati ignored last time?
Besides, in Mein Kampf, Hitler said that it was some christian preacher, Karl Leuger who first inculated anti-Jewish hatred in him. He never even mentioned evolution except once, in regards to development of politics!
(see Hitler, Mein Kampf: Volume 1, Chapter 2.) or, if you don't want to read Mein Kampf yourself, try a second hand source, then: here.
What does it matter that the hatred was originally “religious” and not “biological”? Centuries of history show what the results have been. Does Sarfati think that it's some kind of coincidence that the Nazis went after the same group of people that for centuries been persecuted by the church, even before the church became "liberal"?
Does he really think that without the centuries of the church inciting hatred against the Jews that Hitler would have somehow wound up going after them anyway?
If so, he's yet to show anything in Darwin's writings that is anti-semitic, much less of the level of what Martin Luther wrote.
Something that's not been mentioned. Even is Weikart was completely right, in what way would evolution be disproved? Just because an idea has been used, or abused to hurt people itself has no actual scientific, evidentiary bearing on whether that idea is right or not. Sarfati and Kennedy etc. are just playing on people's emotions, so that people will not want to think evolution is true.
BTW, if anything, Feder is the embarassment to Judaism, not Foxman. Scroll down to "War on Christians" conference contains much about Jews. Feder is just someone who really needs to do some [url=”http://members.tripod.com/candst/toc.htm”]studying[/url] about American history.
If Sarfati wants, he can contact me through my email: sakkiidit@hotmail.com. I can debate him at a religious site, like Theology Web if he wants.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 07/03/2007 11:45:22 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 17:12:19 [Permalink]
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T_I, I just want to state that I think your arguments are wonderfully well reasoned and written. Whatever comes of the debate, you've presented our side of it magnificently. Thank you.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/03/2007 17:12:59 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 13:50:55 [Permalink]
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Well, now neither of my replies seems to have made it; oh well, at least this way, I've put the information out there so that it's readily available should I ever have to use it in a debate anywhere else.
Thanks, HalfMooner. I try. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 19:08:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Well, now neither of my replies seems to have made it; oh well, at least this way, I've put the information out there so that it's readily available should I ever have to use it in a debate anywhere else.
Thanks, HalfMooner. I try.
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So, when it come right down to push-and-shove, that site censored scientific arguments that it could not answer.
The Creationists always complain that the "scientific establishment" suppresses their ideas, yet they carefully make sure that when they control the playing field, they tilt its surface so that their goalposts are downhill. But your arguments are here, available for all of us to use, and the Creationists are yet again exposed for their intellectual dishonesty.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 15:39:00 [Permalink]
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Well, I tried again...
Well, since my comment got edited out, I'll try just posting this for further reading.
As for Sarfati's paranoid comments about "liberals"...
And the point of ADL being a liberal front group is that liberals hate Christianity, and even biblical Judaism. So their rants against documentaries that demonstrate the role of Darwinism in the Holocaust have more to do with defending liberalism than defending Jews.
I'd just love to see him come up with some actual evidence other than his own bigotry towards "liberals" and "atheists" that:
1) the ADL is a liberal front group. I can just as easily say that christians hate "liberals", and that's why "liberals" are defending themselves against people who are trying to implement their religious agenda using the gov't (at least in the States).
2) that they are more about defending "liberals" than the Jews. Not even any Jewish groups (unless those suborned by christians) blame anti-semitism on Darwinism.
Jews for Judaism, Messiah truth.com. Would Sarfati say that those are "liberal" groups more interested in "defending liberalism" than "defending jews"?
In my responses, both seen here (and moderated out) I've ambly shown that the "link" between Darwinism and anti-semitism pales compared to the centuries of christian tradition of anti-semitism. Too bad it still doesn't seem to have died out yet! |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2007 : 15:29:28 [Permalink]
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Ok, now I'm getting pissed off!
Check out that "Culture Watch" link again, and see that Sarfati has once again misquoted Dawkins. Well, I tried replying again, but since it takes so many words to refute that shit, Bill will be able to "legitimately" edit out my comments.
So be it: I've posted the misquote, and my reply to it at the Richard Dawkins forum.
This is what I'm replying to:
Further support comes from none other than the misguided misotheist Clinton R. Dawkins himself. In a 1997 interview with The Evolutionist, he said:
Dawkins: I find it quite ironic #8212; amusing #8212; the thought that if you did build a politics or an ethical system on Darwinism, people like you and me would hate it. It really would be a very unpleasant world in which to live.
the evolutionist: What would it look like?
Dawkins: Oh, it would look like Hitler#8217;s Germany #8230;
Jonathan Sarfati, Brisbane |
What really pisses me off? All it takes it to click on the damned link Sarfati gives, do some 30 second of reading to see that Dawkins does not advocate setting up a moral system based on "Darwinism".
Why does Sarfati do this? He's still trying to make up a link between "Darwinism" and anti-semitism! Easy to do when you're taking stuff out of context!
For what little it's worth, here's my reply: (I have to store this information somewhere, since Bill won't take it, and I'm starting to suspect that it may be important to have a fast link available for refuting that crap.
Some context, please...first, from Sarfati's site:the evolutionist
Dawkins: Well there are two aspects to that. One is what we've just been talking about, which is that replicators don't have to be DNA. Darwinism has to have replicators at its base, but they don't have to be DNA. So I'm hard on genes in that purely academic sense -- I want people to understand that you can have Darwinism going on in computers, or on Mars, without DNA. The other sense in which you could say I'm hard on, not so much on genes, but on Darwinism, is when you begin to talk about morals and politics and so forth. I find it quite ironic -- amusing -- the thought that if you did build a politics or an ethical system on Darwinism, people like you and me would hate it. It really would be a very unpleasant world in which to live.
the evolutionist: What would it look like?
Dawkins: Oh, it would look like Hitler's Germany, or extreme Thatcherite Britain, only much more so. In America the extreme right - the very people who ought to love Darwinism from a political point of view - are the ones who hate it from a scientific point of view. And so I quite enjoy pointing out this irony. You've got to be pretty thick to think that because "I am a Darwinian in my academic outlook" I must be an advocate of selfishness in humans.
Catch that, Sarfati???
....But there are people, like Steven Rose, who are almost constitutionally incapable of making the separation between what one believes academically, scientifically, and what one thinks "ought" to happen, politically. So it is sometimes necessary to kind of over-react - but it shouldn't be necessary to even say: "I am a may be a Darwinian and I may believe in selfish genes but I'm not an advocate of a politics of selfishness." It shouldn't be necessary, but it is, because of the misunderstandings that have happened.
No, not misunderstandings, just quotes taken out of context by people like Sarfati.
As another example, check out here. For the context, check out the rest of the article:
However, you go further when you call evolution evil. I would simply say nature is pitilessly indefferent to human concerns and should be ignored when we try to work out our moral and ethical systems. We should instead say, We're on our own. We are unique in the animal kingdom in having brains big enough not to follow the dictates of the selfish genes. And we are in the unique position of being able to use our brains to work out together the kind of society in which we want to live. But the one thing we must definately not do is what Julian Huxley did, which is try to see evolution as some kind of an object lesson."
From: 'Evolution: The dissent of Darwin', Psychology Today, January/February 1997, page 60, same article. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 07/10/2007 16:15:15 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2007 : 12:15:27 [Permalink]
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Well, I've tried again: it seems that I've not been putting my CITY in the submission form. Bill may have an automatic screening thingy that was deleting my comments out perhaps. This time, I've put my city in.
We'll see what happens!
I've just posted the same thing there as I did here about Sarfati misquoting Dawkins.
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/03/15/time-to-trim-the-bible/#comment-23660 |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2007 : 17:44:04 [Permalink]
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Well, at this moment, Sarfati's lying quote is the next-to-last post on that page, and I don't see yours. You may just have to accept that these people are only interested in misrepresenting, or suppressing, the words of their betters. Good try, though.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Weikart vs. Darwin
