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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:13:53 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by marfknox |
| I respond to this with a paraphrasing of your own words: You assume that this all has some benevolent higher purpose, but as one with limited knowledge on the subject, well, your just assuming. |
Your assuming this.
| Bill, there's plenty of evidence to debunk most literal claims of all the major world religions, including Christianity. |
Not the resurrection.
| Given that, we're left with a big fat mystery. Ancient people all over the earth have been inventing creative myths to explain the origins of our and the universe's existence. |
I particularly like the one that starts off with a warm little pond hidden away in some primordial haze.
| Animal and even human sacrifice was so common because people looked at the cycle of life and death and assumed that for fortune and life to emerge, first death must occur. |
Silly people. Look what assuming did for them.
| We cannot know whether some entity with intelligence and consciousness created the universe and life (and frankly, I fail to see how saying "God was just here first" is any more logical than saying "Matter – some of which became life – was just here". Your insistence that life was created "from nothing" is a straw man. |
You either have:
A. An infinite God
or
B. Infinite matter.
Because I am able see design in the creation I believe A is the logical choice.
| While we cannot know if any intelligent and conscious creator exists, |
But we can. We have the vary creation itself that bares witness. What do all created things require? A creator but of course.
| we certainly can know that nature is not benevolent. If there is such a god, he most certainly is not good by any even generalized human consensus. Or if he is, he most certainly isn't powerful enough to conform nature to his own goodness. |
As one who died so that I may live I put his goodness at a level of infinity
| Also, after all this time on this forum, you still insist on totally misrepresenting the modern atheist worldview. You make it sound like we think the universe was just here as it is, and never give any credit to the theories in physics and biology that are perfectly plausible (and much more simple explanations than some mystery "God" who "just did it.) |
And how does your leading theory for abiogeness begin?
| And apparently, Bill, you also have no faith. None at all. Because real faith does not rely on reason. It is about revelation. It is a personal experience. It is a direct connection with the supernatural. |
This is partially true.
| You have nothing like that, but you really really want your religion to be true, so you convince yourself that reason and science support your claims. |
With your limited knowledge, I am sure this is how you see it.
| It's really quite sad and pathetic – you and all the other modern fundamentalists think you have traditional faith, when really you are the frightened, marginalized, bastard children of the Enlightenment. |
I am so scared, of what? I have an opportunity for a eternity of existence with the one who created me. Joy, peace, thankfulness. Yes. Fear? Nope.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:32:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
You either have:
A. An infinite God
or
B. Infinite matter. |
False dichotomy.| We have the vary creation itself that bares witness. What do all created things require? A creator but of course. |
That argument still assumes its conclusion, and so is still circular.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:33:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner...
Dangerous example, Bill. Scientists are working on creating life (a synthetic bacterium) from non-living chemical at this very moment. When they eventually succeed, how will your words look? |
Oh come on Half, you know he's a sensible guy. When science first determines a method of creating living organisms from scratch, Bill will come in here and admit he was wrong, acknowledge that his imaginary pal doesn't have a singular stranglehold on the ability to create life, and confess to accepting that there is a way for it to happen through scientific processes. He'll post a few smilies and suggest we all have a good laugh at how silly he was to claim the whole life thing could only come about by magic. Perhaps he'll even apologize for being so stubborn and dishonest in his discussions on these forums, dontchya know?
Uh, did I forget to add the  's ?
Keeping in mind that this is, after all, the Humor Forum, I'd like to re-pose HalfMooner's question. Humor? You bet. We've been amused by Bill's varied responses to similar queries in the past, not the least funny being his squirming to avoid any sort of actual, substantive reply (and that being my prediction as to his response again this time)...
Really, Bill, if tomorrow's newspaper headline declared that scientists have determined a way to create a living organism from non-living material, what would your response be?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:37:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by GeeMack
Really, Bill, if tomorrow's newspaper headline declared that scientists have determined a way to create a living organism from non-living material, what would your response be? |
That's easy. He'd say, "where did the non-living materials come from?"
And in doing so (because he's already done so), he makes his god smaller. As science fills in gaps in knowledge, Bill's god gets tinier and tinier, because Bill's faith relies upon scientific ignorance. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:48:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by GeeMack
Really, Bill, if tomorrow's newspaper headline declared that scientists have determined a way to create a living organism from non-living material, what would your response be?
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Actually, they would need to create a living organism from nothing, not from matter that was already in existence.
That is unless they created this matter as well, from nothing.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 08/14/2007 11:02:28 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:48:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Rat, that was the best, funniest, most basically accurate summary of the Bible I've ever read. I laughed until I cried, then cried until I laughed again. My hat is off to you.
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Well, obviously, your easily amused. I am sure that is a byproduct of all your spare time.
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This, again? I prefer to think of it as a well-deserved retirement. But you just think of idle hands and the Devil, don't you, Bill? You poor, spirit-haunted fellow.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:51:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by GeeMack
Really, Bill, if tomorrow's newspaper headline declared that scientists have determined a way to create a living organism from non-living material, what would your response be?
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Actually, they would need to create a living organism from nothing, not from matter that was already in existence.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:51:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
He'd say, "where did the non-living materials come from?"
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Yes, as opposed to "they were just there". |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 11:04:46 [Permalink]
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And, bang! Other score for Dave!
Really, Bill, that was pathetic. Now you have reduced your god to a nerdy little man who runs a chemical supply house.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/14/2007 11:05:20 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 11:17:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
And, bang! Other score for Dave!
Really, Bill, that was pathetic. Now you have reduced your god to a nerdy little man who runs a chemical supply house.
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And this is just your lame attempt to deflect the reality that man, in all his glory, can not even recreate life from matter that already exists. Not to mention any attempt to create new life from nothing. So you try and belittle the one can and did create new life from nothing. What folly.
To much time on your hands, retirement, aren't they one in the same for most?
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2007 : 11:49:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by filthy
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| Oh, I don't know; could it be that it's because the one with infinite knowledge evidently does not exist? |
If the evidence were any closer it would bite your nose. Complex life does not just create itself from nothing. I mean man cannot even recreate life from that which already exists. And the most popular theory to counter one creator as the source of this complex life begins with a warm little pond that was just there?.?.?.?
| And it is true that I cannot create life |
So then what makes you believe your qualified to critique the one who did?
| Unless we're talking about abiogenesis; that research is slowly advancing. We simply don't know, yet.... |
So your not going to assume anything on abiogenesis, because we just don't know, right? But yet you will assume the design intent, or lack there of, in other areas of life of which you equally "simply don't know"? Your all over the board here.
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Here we go, 'round again. Bill, you're so circular that I'm getting even dizzier than usual.
But what if that creator doesn't exist? There is no evidence that it does beyond your ferris wheel reasoning and a lot of stories in a mere book written by people who knew nothing of science beyond sheep & goat breeding.
As I stated: we don't know. Yet...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 11:52:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott...
Yes, as opposed to "they were just there". |
Just there, like, for example, your imaginary friend? 
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 12:11:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Because I am able see design in the creation I believe A is the logical choice.
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Like the banana... Right, Bill?
Salud
perro de tokio |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 12:12:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Prove it? You have the very creation itself which testifies for the existence of a creator. Or are you one of these guys who begins his explanation for his worldview with "It was all just there. A warm little pond hidden away somewhere in the haze of primordial earth"?
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"Do you, Bill Scott, have scientifically testable evidence that there is a god which has placed and is placing life forms on Earth?... Don't wait for the translation! Yes or no?"
(With apologies to Adlai Stevenson) |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 12:16:40 [Permalink]
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| Was God just there, then? |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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Can the christian god get anything right?
