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 Fundamentalists Hate Noah’s Ark
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/08/2007 :  06:31:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by pleco

See this review of some Christian gaming company's simulation of Noah's Ark. (warning - if you have a sensitive constitution - this video drops a lot of f-bombs.)

There are 2 Ark games in this video amongst other Bible games, one at the beginning and one at the end. The one at the end of the video is "Super 3D Noah's Ark". For some reason, there are no dinosaurs.
That guy's got a real talent for game reviews. I laughed my ass off!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2007 :  15:04:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Never let it be said that I was afraid to give equal time, if not credence. Here's some of AiGs apologetics concerning the Noah yarn:
The account of Noah and the Ark is one of the most widely known events in the history of mankind. Unfortunately, like other Bible accounts, it is often taken as a mere fairy tale.

The Bible, though, is the true history book of the universe, and in that light, the most-asked questions about the Ark and Flood of Noah can be answered with authority and confidence.
It's pretty good; read on....

Late edited for lousey composition.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 10/11/2007 16:57:22
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2007 :  16:49:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lies, lies, more lies! Such a breezy style, while promoting a Aesop-class fable as literally true. Gag! I cannot for a moment believe that Hamm himself believes this tale.

"The Bible, though, is the true history book of the universe." Well, that pretty much summarizes his defense of Noah's Ark: The Bible says so. End of discussion. We take cash, checks, and home deeds.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2007 :  17:40:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

Noah yarn:

yet the ancient Greeks built vessels at least this size 2,000 years earlier. China built huge wooden ships in the 1400s that may have been as large as the Ark.

Oh
126.73m by 51.84m - Treasure ship - 15th c. - Historical records from the document "History of the Ming dynasty" claim that the largest Chinese Treasure Ships were more than 400 feet long. However, the size of treasure ships is still disputed and they more probably were between 59 and 84 meters long.

128.0 m by 17.7 m - Tessarakonteres - Ca. 200 BCE - The Greek trireme Tessarakonteres reportedly carried a crew of 400, was powered by 4000 oarsmen and transported 2850 soldiers, according to Athenaeus and Plutarch (Life of Demetrios). There is no solid evidence of this ship actually existing save for two ancient references.

137.0 m by 22.9 m - Noah's Ark - ? - Noah's Ark is described in accounts in Genesis and the Qur'an. The geological and historical evidence for its existence is in dispute, and most historians and scientists don't believe it ever existed.
Well Ken and Tim never let the facts get in your way biblical illiterism.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  15:09:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
 Moderation Notice 

More discussion of this article can be found over here.


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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  15:42:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

 Moderation Notice 

More discussion of this article can be found over here.


Is this a game, Dave? You link people over to the other thread, but then in the other thread you link people here? I'm confused!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  16:23:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wonderful indeed, are the creative ways that Answers in Genesis can turn and twist something to reflect favor upon their Bible-inspired conjectures.
2. AP: “Texas Canyon Was a Geological Rush Job”

Even secular scientists agree that the mile-and-a-half-long Canyon Lake Gorge, Texas, which is up to 80 feet (24 m) deep, didn't take millions of years—rather, it was carved out in three short days in July 2002.

When the spillway to Canyon Lake in Texas overflowed five years ago, the resulting torrent sliced through layer after layer of rock in just three days, creating a canyon that looks like a miniature of the Grand Canyon in Arizona.

The water exposed “rock formations, fossils and even dinosaur footprints” and dug so deeply that Bill Ward, a retired University of New Orleans geology professor who has spent time examining the gorge, commented that “there wasn't a blade of grass or a layer of algae [left].”

The official website for the Gorge Preservation Society notes that the peak flow of the floodwater was some 67,000 cubic feet per second (1,897 cubic meters per second), nearly 200 times the typical rate. (You can view an aerial photo of part of the gorge at the site as well, and our site hosts a close-up of the damage the gorge-formation caused.)

Furthermore, other geological formations—such as Devonian Fossil Gorge north of Iowa City, Iowa—have been similarly formed by flash flooding. Yet the AP story on Canyon Lake Gorge confidently explains,

Neither compares to the world's most famous canyon. It took water around 5 million to 6 million years to carve the Grand Canyon, which plunges 6,000 feet at its deepest point and stretches 15 miles at its widest.
Why is it that, even in the face of firsthand evidence that deep gorges can be formed by floods in mere days, secular scientists still insist other canyons took millions of years to form—even when no one observed these millions of years? The answer, of course, is that these uniformitarian interpretations are a linchpin of the “geologic column,” the long-age interpretation of the fossil record that is absolutely required for Darwinism to make sense.

In spite of this, secular scientists have not been able to deny the evidence for rapid formation of numerous geologic features worldwide, especially when the evidence occurs right before our eyes! And if a single overflowing spillway in Texas can carve a mile-and-half-long, 80-foot-deep gorge in three days, imagine the geological havoc a worldwide Flood—and its retreat—would cause over the span of more than a year!
And yet, any even casual reading of the article that they link to shows that the rocks cut by the 2002 flood were not the same as those found in the Grand Canyon. These were porous and faulted, and easily broken up and cut.
The reservoir was built in the 1960s to prevent flash flooding along the Guadalupe River and to assure the water supply for central Texas. The spillway had never been overrun until July 4, 2002, when 70,000 cubic feet of water gushed downhill toward the Guadalupe River for three days, scraping off vegetation and topsoil and leaving only limestone walls.

"Underneath us, it looks solid, but obviously it's not," said Tommie Streeter Rhoad of the Guadalupe Blanco River Authority, as she looked out over a cream-colored limestone crevasse.

The sudden exposure of such canyons is rare but not unprecedented. Flooding in Iowa in 1993 opened a limestone gorge behind a spillway at Corvalville Lake north of Iowa City, but that chasm, Devonian Fossil Gorge, is narrower and shallower than Canyon Lake Gorge.

Neither compares

"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  16:38:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Is this a game, Dave? You link people over to the other thread, but then in the other thread you link people here? I'm confused!
I'm making sure that people who find either thread will know about both of them. I should probably lock the other one.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  16:57:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally quoted by filthy

The answer, of course, is that these uniformitarian interpretations are a linchpin of the “geologic column,” the long-age interpretation of the fossil record that is absolutely required for Darwinism to make sense.
Wow, what a twisted and pathetic definition of "uniformitarian." The real meaning is nothing more than "the same processes we see occurring today have been occurring throughout time."

And the real problem is that the creationists think that because something can happen, it should be taken as equally probable as anything else that can happen. But as filthy has already pointed out, and just like with Mt. St. Helens, the stuff being carved is markedly different from the rocks of the Grand Canyon. It's ridiculous to think that the same processes were necessarily at work in both places.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  17:25:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When the spillway to Canyon Lake in Texas overflowed five years ago, the resulting torrent sliced through layer after layer of rock in just three days, creating a canyon that looks like a miniature of the Grand Canyon in Arizona.
Okay, that proves a really big spillway overflowed to make the grand Canyon, right?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  17:37:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

When the spillway to Canyon Lake in Texas overflowed five years ago, the resulting torrent sliced through layer after layer of rock in just three days, creating a canyon that looks like a miniature of the Grand Canyon in Arizona.
Okay, that proves a really big spillway overflowed to make the grand Canyon, right?


Yep, 'xactly right! It just took a little longer is all.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2007 :  18:25:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
dv82matt wrote:
Does your <filthy's> browser not include an option to increase the size of text on web pages?
Internet Infidels uses vBulletin software which is putting fixed font size on forum content. It's the same with Skepticality Forum... and it's a shame.
Text cannot be resized over there.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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Webster
New Member

1 Post

Posted - 08/03/2008 :  00:50:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Webster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's difficult to know where to begin in criticizing this screed, as there is so much to find fault with. In short, neither writer knows what he's talking about, and fails to use simple logic with what little he does know.

Mr. Gillette's most fundamental error is that he takes the story out of its proper context, and tries to fit it into one in which it simply does not belong. The story of Noah and the Ark is not simply a story about a past event, it is an integral part of a foundational history. Divorced from its purpose, cut adrift from its history, disengaged from its consequences, of *course* it doesn't make sense. Why would it?

The purpose of this Biblical story is to tell about both God's judgment on a world full of evil (the Flood) and the means he provided for salvation (the Ark).

The history is just as important. What gave God the right to execute judgment on the world? He created it and he owns it, so he sets the rules. (See Genesis chapters 1 & 2.) If God is good, where did all this evil come from? Man chose to rebel against his Creator. (See Genesis 3.) Was it really that bad? Well, Cain killed his brother out of jealousy; his distant descendant Lamech bragged about having "killed ... a young man for injuring me." (See Genesis 4.) What kind of a man was Noah? Physically speaking, he was only nine generations from Adam, who had been formed by God's own hand, presumably in perfect physical condition. (See Genesis 5.) What preparations were made? With as much as 120 years to work in, Noah built a very large wooden ship; as he was a righteous man, he surely made some attempt to warn friends and family of the coming judgment. (See Genesis 6.) When did all these things take place? Less than 1700 years after the Creation event. (See Genesis 1, 5, & 7.)

The consequences connect Noah to secular history. The descendants of his grandsons (as recorded in Genesis 10) are identifiable people groups in Europe, Africa, and Asia, some of whom record the same names for their ancestors as Genesis gives. The confusion at Babel (depicted in Genesis 11) explains why some languages are related to each other, but not to all others, and is also mentioned in some ancient histories. The family line from Noah to Abraham is also given in Genesis 11, and Abraham is generally agreed to have been a real person -- in any case, he is recorded as having interacted with several cities and nations known to have existed at the time he is supposed to have lived.

By taking it out of context, Mr. Gillette commits the "Your theory doesn't work under my theory, so it must be wrong" fallacy. By assuming millions of years, he takes away the primary evidence for the Flood (billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water, all over the earth (including Mt Everest)). By assuming evolutionary human development, he ignores the possibility that Noah might have been smarter than "modern" shipbuilders. By assuming there was no global flood, he denies Noah any assets not available in the modern Middle East.

In short, by arguing from false premises, he makes himself look like a fool.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2008 :  04:29:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This'll be good...

Hint: there was no assumption of anything... there is no evidence supporting YEC or a global flood.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 08/03/2008 04:30:24
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2008 :  04:59:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Webster
Mr. Gillette's most fundamental error is that he takes the story out of its proper context, and tries to fit it into one in which it simply does not belong.

You mean like what evangelical Christians do to scientific research?


The story of Noah and the Ark is not simply a story about a past event, it is an integral part of a foundational history.

As a fictional story, yes I concur that it is an itegral part of a foundational history. It is a story (as you mentioned) that serves to set Jews apart from the rest of the population, and enhances the sense of belonging, of identification. Something that was very important 2000-3000 years ago.


Divorced from its purpose, cut adrift from its history, disengaged from its consequences, of *course* it doesn't make sense. Why would it?

Ah, but the scientific reality stands on its own legs. Scientific fact is still fact. A glas of water still boils at 100°C, even if you remove the water, "cut it adrift" from the lake which was its original context.

You can place the story of Noah in a religious/historic context, but you cannot explain away the physical evidense that clearly tells a different story,



The purpose of this Biblical story is to tell about both God's judgment on a world full of evil (the Flood) and the means he provided for salvation (the Ark).

Yes. But it is a religious story. As such, it provides no evidense that can confirm it's truthfullness.


The consequences connect Noah to secular history. The descendants of his grandsons (as recorded in Genesis 10) are identifiable people groups in Europe, Africa, and Asia, some of whom record the same names for their ancestors as Genesis gives.

References please.


The confusion at Babel (depicted in Genesis 11) explains why some languages are related to each other, but not to all others, and is also mentioned in some ancient histories.

No it doesn't, and it also does not explain the existance of diverse languages before Babel.


The family line from Noah to Abraham is also given in Genesis 11, and Abraham is generally agreed to have been a real person -- in any case, he is recorded as having interacted with several cities and nations known to have existed at the time he is supposed to have lived.

Spiderman lives in New York, and James Bond's headquarter is in London. What does that prove? That Spiderman and James Bond exist?


I'm short of time right now, back later

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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