|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 20:38:37 [Permalink]
|
It's a propaganda film!
And while not about the movie, here is a tale of two tenured faculty members being Expelled for their beliefs... from a Christian college populated by Genesis literalists. It seems, though, that the two who were let go were too conservative for the school's liking, in that they think they have certainty that the Bible is true (as opposed to just having faith that the Bible is true).
Boy-O-boy. A huge stink about Caroline Crocker (whose contract wasn't renewed), Guillermo Gonzalez (who was simply denied tenure) and Richard Sternberg (who didn't lose anything but a set of keys he shouldn't have had anyway), and then the Christians start eating their own by revoking tenure because people are too convinced by the Bible. It's quite likely these guys don't want anything to do with evolution, but add them to the list of those who were actually Expelled for their beliefs, a list for which creationists get most of the credit for the length. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
 |
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2008 : 21:18:20 [Permalink]
|
Sal is flat-out delusional. Instead of being "expelled," he's more likely some day to be forcibly enrolled in an insane asylum, as his mind continues to deteriorate.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 14:00:35 [Permalink]
|
Unbelievable!
Matt Nisbet (I'd never heard of him) took PZ and Dawkins to task over their appearance in Expelled, basically telling them to shut up and let others speak on behalf of science. PZ responded appropriately. Now, Sheril Kirshenbaum (never heard of her, either) and Chris Mooney (of The Republican War on Science fame) are complaining about PZ's use of the F word, and defending Nisbet's no-less-rude-even-if-less-vulgar attack on PZ.
Nisbet really misses the mark, since even a non-response can be twisted by lying creationists into a PR victory, but silence would be the only response that Nisbet would allow for PZ and Dawkins when the phone rings for interviews. Because even if PZ had prefaced every sentence during his Expelled interview with "This is only my opinion, I don't speak for all scientists," were I editing the film all such disclaimers would have been left on the cutting-room floor. And if PZ had declined the interview, I would have had Ben Stein saying something like, "we tried to speak with PZ Myers, but he refused to come out of his ivory tower to answer a few simple questions."
Nisbet is very keen on having the science side of the ID political war "framed" in the right way, so as to not alienate scientifically minded theists. But it's the creationists who are deciding the framing in the movie Expelled, and not the scientists, and the creationists use lies to get there.
Mooney, meanwhile, doesn't even understand how the creationists demonstrating themselves to be hypocrites and liars helps the cause of opposing creationism. He's of the opinion that the dust-up over PZ's explusion can only drag more people to the theaters. He even asks people "to check your highly developed critical faculties at the door" and agree that all publicity is good publicity to a mindless sheep-like public. But this movie and the people involved with it are just political tools. Where is Gary Hart if all publicity is good in politics? Or Geraldine Ferraro? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 17:37:05 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
Unbelievable!
Matt Nisbet (I'd never heard of him) took PZ and Dawkins to task over their appearance in Expelled, basically telling them to shut up and let others speak on behalf of science. PZ responded appropriately. Now, Sheril Kirshenbaum (never heard of her, either) and Chris Mooney (of The Republican War on Science fame) are complaining about PZ's use of the F word, and defending Nisbet's no-less-rude-even-if-less-vulgar attack on PZ.
Nisbet really misses the mark, since even a non-response can be twisted by lying creationists into a PR victory, but silence would be the only response that Nisbet would allow for PZ and Dawkins when the phone rings for interviews. Because even if PZ had prefaced every sentence during his Expelled interview with "This is only my opinion, I don't speak for all scientists," were I editing the film all such disclaimers would have been left on the cutting-room floor. And if PZ had declined the interview, I would have had Ben Stein saying something like, "we tried to speak with PZ Myers, but he refused to come out of his ivory tower to answer a few simple questions."
Nisbet is very keen on having the science side of the ID political war "framed" in the right way, so as to not alienate scientifically minded theists. But it's the creationists who are deciding the framing in the movie Expelled, and not the scientists, and the creationists use lies to get there.
Mooney, meanwhile, doesn't even understand how the creationists demonstrating themselves to be hypocrites and liars helps the cause of opposing creationism. He's of the opinion that the dust-up over PZ's explusion can only drag more people to the theaters. He even asks people "to check your highly developed critical faculties at the door" and agree that all publicity is good publicity to a mindless sheep-like public. But this movie and the people involved with it are just political tools. Where is Gary Hart if all publicity is good in politics? Or Geraldine Ferraro?
|
While I don't think PZ should lay low, it is interesting, well, not so interesting as completely transparent to anyone who gives it a thought, that the makers of Expelled sought out only atheist scientists to interview as though people like Ken Miller do not exist or are not a part of the scientific establishment. I think it's time for that point to be made.
Rather than attack PZ Myers, who has every reason to speak out, perhaps, if they want to do some good, they should be attacking the film on this other front.
Instead, there is this stupid inside battle brewing where none should exist. 
Hey scientists and science writers, it's time to put on your critical thinking caps!!!  |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 18:42:05 [Permalink]
|
Lying for Jesus?
Richard Dawkins review of Expelled and his account of “the Good Friday Fiasco”.
From the review:
The alleged association between Darwinism and Nazism is harped on for what seems like hours, and it is quite simply an outrage. We are supposed to believe that Hitler was influenced by Darwin. Hitler was ignorant and bonkers enough for his hideous mind to have imbibed some sort of garbled misunderstanding of Darwin (along with his very ungarbled understanding of the anti-semitism of Martin Luther, and of his own never-renounced Roman Catholic religion) but it is hardly Darwin's fault if he did. My own view, frequently expressed (for example in the The Selfish Gene and especially in the title chapter of A Devil's Chaplain) is that there are two reasons why we need to take Darwinian natural selection seriously. Firstly, it is the most important element in the explanation for our own existence and that of all life. Secondly, natural selection is a good object lesson in how NOT to organize a society. As I have often said before, as a scientist I am a passionate Darwinian. But as a citizen and a human being, I want to construct a society which is about as un-Darwinian as we can make it. I approve of looking after the poor (very un-Darwinian). I approve of universal medical care (very un-Darwinian). It is one of the classic philosophical fallacies to derive an 'ought' from an 'is'. Stein (or whoever wrote his script for him) is implying that Hitler committed that fallacy with respect to Darwinism. If we look at more recent history, the closest representatives you'll find to Darwinian politics are uncompassionate conservatives like Margaret Thatcher, George W Bush, or Ben Stein's own hero, Richard Nixon. Maybe all these people, along with the Social Darwinists from Herbert Spencer to John D Rockefeller, committed the is/ought fallacy and justified their unpleasant social views by invoking garbled Darwinism. Anyone who thinks that has any bearing whatsoever on the truth or falsity of Darwin's theory of evolution is either an unreasoning fool or a cynical manipulator of unreasoning fools. I will not speculate as to which category includes Ben Stein and Mark Mathis. |
This is a great read!!!
|
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 21:06:41 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Ricky
It seems to be that Republicans, the people who are least likely to believe in evolution, are the most likely to structure society in a Darwinistic nature.
|
Aye. I remember some Republican trying to explain evolution to his fellow conservatives by comparing it to capitalistic market forces which create spontaneous order and high level organization without the benefit of forethought or planning. You'd think they'd get it, but of course few did.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/24/2008 21:07:10 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 04:12:12 [Permalink]
|
Kil:
Lying for Jesus?
Richard Dawkins review of Expelled and his account of “the Good Friday Fiasco”.
|
Could Expelled really have been that pathetic? Reading Dawkins, it comes off as propaganda so inept that Hitler would have been embarrassed.
Me, I'm looking forward to renting it. I'll make a batch of cayanne popcorn, crack some Limey or Canuk beer, and enjoy an afternoon of low comedy.
For the last, couple of days, UD has been spinning it like Behe's fanciful flagelli; now that Dawkins has has written it up, they'll probably burn out a wheel bearing responding.
I fear that I might not get a chance to see it, as cooler heads might intervene and stop it's release lest it damage the intellegent design speculation even more than Kittsmiller. Which, I think, it would. Win-win, eh?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/25/2008 : 04:42:30 [Permalink]
|
And awaaaay we go!
"Framing science: Finding a frame to fit materialism?
O'Leary
At Overwhelming Evidence, today, I reflect on the comments of Matthew Nisbet at the Framing Science blog.
His comments are a more interesting - and far more significant - illustration of what is wrong with science today than the uproar over Myers's ejection from the Expelled screening.
In his post, Nisbet pleads with Dawkins and Myers to just pipe down.
He believed that they are doing more harm than good by linking science with atheism, and he knows that that is not good public relations.
[ … ]
Look, it's just not good public relations, okay? Things go on from there.
Note: I have myself attempted to resolve Myers's expulsion problem by paying for his ticket, if he will agree to watch the whole film, and not run out to trash it halfway through or something similar. I have e-mailed producer Mark Mathis with my offer. It will likely cost me US$8.00 or so, and my freelance writing business can easily spring for it.
It is much easier to solve Myers's problem about getting a ticket than to solve the more serious, science-related problems detailed in the documentary - the problems of people whose careers were destroyed by Darwinists simply because they know reasons why Darwinism isn't true.
For more, go here."
Sooo, now it's all about PR and scientists who don't do science and got shitcanned for it. And this is just the beginning; it's gonna get better because these numbnuts just can't leave well enough alone.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed!
Topic Locked
