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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2007 : 01:24:03 [Permalink]
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Jerome, it might help if your statements of fact were indeed factual.
I know of nobody else here who will so regularly insist upon nonsense even after they've repeatedly been called on it.
It's always, "Open mouth, insert foot." You decide something is so, then stick with it until proven wrong -- if not longer. You should not act all offended when you notice skeptics are themselves offended by your blithe disregard of, or inability to perceive, reality.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2007 : 03:08:53 [Permalink]
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I believe it was the immortal Bierce who called Reality "The nucleus of a vacuum."
Kessler once said: "Football players, like prostitutes, are in the business of ruining their bodies for the pleasure of strangers." and Kidd nicely summed it all up thus: "We're gonna turn this team around 360 degrees." So there!
I also read that: "Any man who watches three football games in a row should be declared legally dead."
Is there a message in there, somewhere?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2007 : 17:39:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You also need to remember that the Saints got the best player in the draft despite not having the best pick. This caused much talk during last off season.
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There was a similar blunder in the 1984 NBA Draft. Though, I suppose taking the best player to fill a more urgent need on your team is a bad idea.
Of course I'm with filthy here. When it comes to pro sports I could give a rip. I gave up on pro football in 95 and soon discovered an extra day in my week.
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I am sure everyone one would agree that Hakeem Olajuwon as compared to Mario Williams is a dramatic difference as a first pick.
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Even though one year does not make a career having the advantage of hindsight does allow you to make a compelling case in a bar room debate.
From your perspective as a contrarian (as DaveW put it) it clear that when the Rockets took Hakeem instead of Michael it was likely at the behest of the league so that Chicago could win 6 championships while limiting Houston to just two.
edited to add: stupid f...... argument. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 09/13/2007 17:42:17 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2007 : 17:54:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Even though one year does not make a career having the advantage of hindsight does allow you to make a compelling case in a bar room debate.
From your perspective as a contrarian (as DaveW put it) it clear that when the Rockets took Hakeem instead of Michael it was likely at the behest of the league so that Chicago could win 6 championships while limiting Houston to just two.
edited to add: stupid f...... argument.
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Each instance of evidence could; in almost any case, hold a plausible answer. It is the totality of evidence that shows a pattern which is beyond doubt.
Hakeen; being a "big man", was the better and safer choice out of college than Michael. Choosing a D lineman; or any lineman, is a stupid f...... pick in football as the first pick.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2007 : 21:02:24 [Permalink]
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Jerome:
It is the totality of evidence that shows a pattern which is beyond doubt. |
And may I add that there are not too many things that are beyond a doubt…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2007 : 04:48:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Hakeen; being a "big man", was the better and safer choice out of college than Michael. Choosing a D lineman; or any lineman, is a stupid f...... pick in football as the first pick. |
Really? While hindsight is always 20/20, I bet a lot of teams would trade their first pick for Larry Allen or Jonatan Ogden,
Indeed, ESPN projects that among the ten most-likely Hall-of-Famers actively playing, no less than three play on the line.
Of course, there have been mistakes-- Green Bay picked Tony Mandrich-- that draft's top 5 were: Troy Aikman, Mandrich, Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas and Deion Sanders. Guess who doesn't belong? So yeah, sometimes picking a lineman won't work.
Was Mario Williams a good pick? I'm inclined to go with the majority and say no. But is this a sign that the NFL is rigged?? Hardly. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 09/14/2007 04:48:29 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2007 : 05:09:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Hakeen; being a "big man", was the better and safer choice out of college than Michael. Choosing a D lineman; or any lineman, is a stupid f...... pick in football as the first pick. |
Really? While hindsight is always 20/20, I bet a lot of teams would trade their first pick for Larry Allen or Jonatan Ogden,
Indeed, ESPN projects that among the ten most-likely Hall-of-Famers actively playing, no less than three play on the line.
Of course, there have been mistakes-- Green Bay picked Tony Mandrich-- that draft's top 5 were: Troy Aikman, Mandrich, Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas and Deion Sanders. Guess who doesn't belong? So yeah, sometimes picking a lineman won't work.
Was Mario Williams a good pick? I'm inclined to go with the majority and say no. But is this a sign that the NFL is rigged?? Hardly.
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I was referring to the first overall pick. Yes, of course Houston could just be stupid. It is just unlikely that anyone would make this mistake after the Mandrich bust.
Like I already said each circumstance of a case can present a plausible explanation. It is the totality of reality which makes the case.
One needs to watch a season and the "calls" which are called and not called to see the manipulation.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2007 : 07:32:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Hakeen; being a "big man", was the better and safer choice out of college than Michael. Choosing a D lineman; or any lineman, is a stupid f...... pick in football as the first pick. |
Really? While hindsight is always 20/20, I bet a lot of teams would trade their first pick for Larry Allen or Jonatan Ogden,
Indeed, ESPN projects that among the ten most-likely Hall-of-Famers actively playing, no less than three play on the line.
Of course, there have been mistakes-- Green Bay picked Tony Mandrich-- that draft's top 5 were: Troy Aikman, Mandrich, Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas and Deion Sanders. Guess who doesn't belong? So yeah, sometimes picking a lineman won't work.
Was Mario Williams a good pick? I'm inclined to go with the majority and say no. But is this a sign that the NFL is rigged?? Hardly.
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I was referring to the first overall pick. Yes, of course Houston could just be stupid. It is just unlikely that anyone would make this mistake after the Mandrich bust.
Like I already said each circumstance of a case can present a plausible explanation. It is the totality of reality which makes the case.
One needs to watch a season and the "calls" which are called and not called to see the manipulation.
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A whole fucking season?! Ye gods, I can barely get through a couple of playoff games without throwing something at the TV! If I were to watch the regular season games, I'd end up on the Wacky Ward at the VA Hospital about the forth weekend. I can't let that happen because then the VA's Angels of Mercy might make me watch the Super Bowl and I'd have to rip my eyes out.
Shudder....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2007 : 09:11:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I was referring to the first overall pick. Yes, of course Houston could just be stupid. It is just unlikely that anyone would make this mistake after the Mandrich bust.
Like I already said each circumstance of a case can present a plausible explanation. It is the totality of reality which makes the case.
One needs to watch a season and the "calls" which are called and not called to see the manipulation. |
Well, there have been a few good number one DL picks-- e.g Bruce Smith, Lee Roy Selmon and Ed Jones, who have been worth it. There have been busts, too, of course, but that's not uncommon for number one picks. I just looked at all number one picks since the merger (through to 2002). The DL pick is not uncommon, with 11 out of 36. I put three as sure-fire greats, five as busts, and three as hard-to-tell. There have been 12 QB picks at number one, too. There are five clear greats, five clear busts (counting Vick as a bust, 'cause really), and two unclear. The RB spot has 7 picks, with 4 great and 3 bust. The OL has had only two, but both are great. Two WR's have been picked with the number one, and I'd say there's a one-and-one split. And finally, two LBs have been picked number one, but both have sucked.
So there you have it. Historically, it's hard to say that picking a DL (or any lineman) is the kiss of death. And as noted here, there are at least justifiable reasons for the pick.
Overall, I'm unswayed by your arguments, Jerome. Indeed, I don't think that watching a whole season-- bad calls and all-- is best explained by some nefarious effort to stage or otherwise fix the results of games.
It's rather simple to say "bad call X happened because the NFL wanted [the team that benefited from the call] to win" but is there any truth behind it? You obviously can only "see" the "fix" once the game-- or indeed, the season-- is over. And then with only a little creativity, you can justify the results as being for this or that reason. Why did NE win in 2001? Well, they are the "Patriots" and since we needed to be "patriotic" after 9/11, it was logical. But as we've seen, such "creative" thinking can blind one enough into thinking that words recited by children on the morning of September 11 eerily predicted the attack when in fact they were talking about playing with a (stolen?) kite. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 09/14/2007 09:12:54 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2007 : 19:13:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
A whole fucking season?! Ye gods, I can barely get through a couple of playoff games without throwing something at the TV! If I were to watch the regular season games, I'd end up on the Wacky Ward at the VA Hospital about the forth weekend. I can't let that happen because then the VA's Angels of Mercy might make me watch the Super Bowl and I'd have to rip my eyes out.
Shudder....
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Indeed. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 05:35:02 [Permalink]
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| Too bad Jerome is no longer around (well, sort of) because I would love to know just what evidence he has seen thus far to point towards the NFL being fixed and what we should expect for the rest of the season. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 22:35:02 [Permalink]
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Just so everyone is clear: Last year's No. 1 pick had a career-high 3˝ sacks to lead the Houston Texans to a 31-13 victory over the Denver Broncos on Thursday night.
With its seventh of the season, Houston tied the franchise record for victories. |
Last time I checked, Reggie Bush was injured and out for the season. And the Saints are no better than Houston this year.
Does this prove anything? No. Well, yes. The assertion that Houston's pick of Mario Williams was somehow evidence of a "predetermined" NFL is utterly absurd. If only Jerome were around to... eh, nevermind. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 04:32:14 [Permalink]
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Damn! I saw this thread on the home page and, for a moment, thought Jerome had returned. Got all excited, I did, because there's nothing like a little fantasy with the morning coffee to get the day well started.
But alas, it's not happened. A pity; Jerome was fun.
"Football combines two of the worst things in American life. It is violence punctuated by committee meetings." ~~ George Will
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:45:43 [Permalink]
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In my opinion, you're right, Filthy. Jerome was like Nixon - fun to kick around. And Nixon was the greatest blessing that the press of that time ever had. Jerome was (is) a young man full of himself and totally unsure of himself at the same time, who contributed a lot of energy to these frequently pretty inert Forums.
None of the Jerome Haters seemed to notice that his preposterous posts drew more attention and responses than most of the declarations of the omniscient pronouncers of the final word and I-can-look-something-up-in-wiki-faster-than-you-can deep thinkers - of which there are a few scribbling furiously on these boards.
I do not in any way except myself from the above description, as I have been guilty of the same snobbish egocentricism that I complain of above. I occasionally (not always) behave like a know-it-all, and purposely, to provoke response from those who know that only they know it all. It is sheer entertainment to find out if they do or do not! But I have been deeply tutored in the Lore of the Troll, and I try to stop before crossing the Dreaded Red Line!
Jerome was, and is, intent on fledging his new-found intellectual wings and delighted in frequently provoking outrage from the Masters of the Universe who took his tomfoolery seriously. I can understand that attitude, this very post will, predictably, arouse all kinds of critical attack - some justified, some not. The bait seems to be irresistable. Unlike Jerome, I possess a slightly larger inventory of response resource, and I do not become obsessed with playing with opinion exchange. Which is what a large amount of "you said ____ and you're wrong, my opinion is right", is.
Jerome did not know when to stop, unlike Bill Scott who better understands the vulnerability of being a provocateur in a hostile environment. Scott does a remarkable job of rattling a number of local cages with some pretty silly stuff. But for Jerome to run up a total of several thousand posts in a few months by firing off one-liners and linking to the same predictable "sources", again and again, was really off-target and certainly tiresome after a while.
I certainly agree he needed to be damped down and wised up.
But you are right. Jerome was and still is fun. I still correspond with him, and I am sure that with more practice he will become more skilled at debate games and learn to say something sensible occasionally in order to keep the debate police from deporting him. Until then, I, like you, miss him.
And all of the above, is only my opinion! No alleged facts here! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 13:59:20 [Permalink]
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| Well, Jerome did generate interest. But his assertions were preposterous, and worse-- he refused to "play along" in an honest way. I mean, if you're going to make some utterly absurd statement, such as "USA is a De facto communist state" you can't expect to dance around every problem in your argument for 10 pages without looking like a troll. Read the thread. It's fun for awhile, and then it's just obnoxious. I can do without the frustration. |
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NFL Predetermined?
