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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2007 :  12:54:11  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So apparently, last night, Bill Dembski was giving a talk at the University of Oklahoma (or possibly a church nearby). Someone named "Golfvixen" was at the talk, and posted updates throughout over at Internet Infidels. Here are some highlights, starting with the what Dr. GH called "the money quote:"
I've got plenty of ulterior religious motive, I'd like to see ID succeed because of my Christian background and beliefs.
That's just beautiful.

As noted by Steven Carr, Dembski has undercut his peers by saying that it's impossible to show that something couldn't be created through slight, successive modifications (Darwin's own test of his theory, which Dembski was arguing was far too high a standard). But Behe's entire "Irreducible Complexity" argument boils down to nothing more than "this couldn't be created through slight, successive modifications." Don't these guys ever compare notes?

Also, Dembski seems to have said that evolution does not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, backstabbing dozens of outspoken young-Earth creationists.

And to ice the cake, it seems that Dembski has now publicly denied common descent between apes and humans.

Another Infidels member recorded the whole three-hour talk (including Q&A session) to an iPod, and I'm sure there's lots of behind-the-scenes work going on right now to get a trancsript created. I'll be sure to link to it here.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2007 :  14:39:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave, it was probably held at OU, given that there is a whole student club devoted to ID.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2007 :  17:15:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's not listed as one of their events. But even so, it was held at the Meacham Auditorium in the University of Oklahoma Student Union. Ah, I got confused because he delivered a talk at Trinity Baptist the night before.

Oh, and a commenter at the above-linked blog claims that OU's IDEA club is "defunct."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2007 :  17:52:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

It's not listed as one of their events. But even so, it was held at the Meacham Auditorium in the University of Oklahoma Student Union. Ah, I got confused because he delivered a talk at Trinity Baptist the night before.

Oh, and a commenter at the above-linked blog claims that OU's IDEA club is "defunct."
Right. After more searching, I found that Meacham Auditorium was the place for the event. As for the club-- odd that it's "defunct" since events were listed into November, no? Oh well. When I was there, I went to the first few meetings of a new "freethinkers" club or some such, but graduated before anything happened with it. OU is in the Bible Belt, and it would be hard for such a club to compete with the large majority of the more theocratically-inclined there.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2007 :  19:07:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave's featured quote is indeed "the money quote." Nobody should ever let Dembski live that one down, as, by itself, it entirely disqualifies him from any participation in science.

Why? Because it's an unqualified statement admitting intent and motivation to deceive.
I've got plenty of ulterior religious motive, I'd like to see ID succeed because of my Christian background and beliefs.
Dembski's openly stating that he's a pious fraud.

A real scientist who is religious might say: "I am a Bible-believing Christian, but I follow strict scientific protocols in my professional work. I know God would never lie, either through scripture, or through scientific revelation." (I wish that were a real quote, but I made it up. I imagine it's been stated like that many times, though.)

But Dembski does not use a qualifyting "NOMA" argument. (Which I shall summarize inaccurately as "What happens in Religion, stays in Religion.") His statement instead vividly reveals that religion alone moves him. He's also admitting his deception in making scientific claims.

The Free Dictionary defines "ulterior motive" as:
a motive, object or aim beyond that which is avowed.
As in "hidden agenda." Almost a definition of ID, as opposed to the more forthright types of Creationism.

Answers.com has:
ul·te·ri·or . . .
adj.

1. Lying beyond what is evident, revealed, or avowed, especially being concealed intentionally so as to deceive: an ulterior motive.
2. Lying beyond or outside the area of immediate interest.
3. Occurring later; subsequent.

[Latin, farther, comparative of *ulter, on the other side.]
ulteriorly ul·te'ri·or·ly adv.



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/18/2007 19:20:12
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2007 :  21:13:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Nobody should ever let Dembski live that one down, as, by itself, it entirely disqualifies him from any participation in science.
More importantly, it will disqualify him from ever appearing on a witness stand or suckering someone into giving him $20,000 for an ultimately unused deposition. No matter how fundamentalist the lawyer, nobody will want to open up Dembski to the vaguest possibility of cross-examination under oath ever again in a case revolving around the premise that ID has nothing to do with religion. He will forever be condemned by his own words to dreaming about another Waterloo, while forbidden from participating.

Not that that's done him any good to date, anyway. Dembski has always, in his fantasies about show trials against evolution, ignored the fact that he is Napoleon.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2007 :  01:50:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not Napoleon, Dave; never Napoleon. He was arguably one of the greatest generals ever, if not the greatest, and deserves nothing but respect. Dembski is merely a puling, little incompetent unable to do more than drool out poorly disguised, religious apologetics, and he doesn't do that very well -- Ken Ham is a much better drooler. Dembski's not fit to clean Napoleon's thunder mug. Nor Ham's, comes to that.

Odd fact: Napoleon's forces in Egypt found the Rosetta Stone.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 09/19/2007 01:52:11
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2007 :  13:39:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

Not Napoleon, Dave; never Napoleon.
The thing is, filthy, Dembski once had a habit of claiming that this hearing or that court case would be "Evolution's Waterloo." The analogy is only properly completed if Dembski is in the role of Napoleon, 'cause he (and ID creationism) keeps getting his butt handed to him.

ERV seems to be slowly rolling out bits-and-pieces of transcription from the audio of Dembski's talk in Oklahoma. To catch up:


- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2007 :  15:17:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finally, something intelligent from Dembski: His comparison of the probability of a designing God, to the probability of a noise coming from the attic being caused by "gremlins bowling." It's "a Bayesian sort of thing," you see.

I think Dembski's going completely mad. Which will tend to make him tell the truth on random occasions.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2007 :  16:11:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by filthy

Not Napoleon, Dave; never Napoleon.
The thing is, filthy, Dembski once had a habit of claiming that this hearing or that court case would be "Evolution's Waterloo." The analogy is only properly completed if Dembski is in the role of Napoleon, 'cause he (and ID creationism) keeps getting his butt handed to him.

ERV seems to be slowly rolling out bits-and-pieces of transcription from the audio of Dembski's talk in Oklahoma. To catch up:


You know me, Dave; any excuse at all, however flimsy, to inject a little history, and/or stuff, into the conversation.

Those were some hilarious links. The part that impresses me the most is that Dembski is still permitted, even asked, to speak to students at any but religious institutions. The guy is really out of it. Do they bring him on like a burlesque house comic, just for laughs between the girly shows?

I had an ambition to one day visit his barbeque shack (he's a co-owner of a grease pit in TX somewhere). If he doesn't cook any better'n he speaks, I think I'll give that one a miss.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2007 :  18:12:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy...

Do they bring him on like a burlesque house comic, just for laughs between the girly shows?
I certainly hope not. It's already hard enough to find work as a magician. With a tacky comedy act like Dembski's in the mix, that could put some cheap, out of date, double-knit tux wearing magician out of work!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2007 :  18:27:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

Those were some hilarious links. The part that impresses me the most is that Dembski is still permitted, even asked, to speak to students at any but religious institutions. The guy is really out of it. Do they bring him on like a burlesque house comic, just for laughs between the girly shows?
If I'm not mistaken, he was invited to speak by a Christian or church group, and they were under the impression that once onstage, he'd mop the floor with the pesky materialists. And it is really quite surprising that neither Dembski, his sychophants, nor one of his "peers" at the DI has written up a glowing account of Dembski's alleged "triumph." Perhaps having the recorded audio in the hands of the Darwinists is just too great a hurdle for them to overcome.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2007 :  23:21:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Imagine that you are a Christian teaching at an evangelical university. One day you have some sort of epiphany and become an atheist. Like many new converts you become an extreme zealot to comensate for your previous beliefs. You really hate the Crhsitians that are all around you, but for financial reasons you have to bite your tongue and keep your opinions to your self. Instead of becoming an outspoken atheist, you decide to become a caricature of a Christian, in order to make believers look like complete fools while making money off of them at the same time. However, so many people take you seriously that you have to become more and more outragous and stupid.

It's obvious - Bill Dembski is actually a covert atheist!

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2007 :  23:49:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic

Imagine that you are a Christian teaching at an evangelical university. One day you have some sort of epiphany and become an atheist. Like many new converts you become an extreme zealot to comensate for your previous beliefs. You really hate the Crhsitians that are all around you, but for financial reasons you have to bite your tongue and keep your opinions to your self. Instead of becoming an outspoken atheist, you decide to become a caricature of a Christian, in order to make believers look like complete fools while making money off of them at the same time. However, so many people take you seriously that you have to become more and more outragous and stupid.

It's obvious - Bill Dembski is actually a covert atheist!
Good logic! I had a somewhat related thought.


Dembski spoke to the press before a painting he recently commissioned





Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2007 :  03:06:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic

Imagine that you are a Christian teaching at an evangelical university. One day you have some sort of epiphany and become an atheist. Like many new converts you become an extreme zealot to comensate for your previous beliefs. You really hate the Crhsitians that are all around you, but for financial reasons you have to bite your tongue and keep your opinions to your self. Instead of becoming an outspoken atheist, you decide to become a caricature of a Christian, in order to make believers look like complete fools while making money off of them at the same time. However, so many people take you seriously that you have to become more and more outragous and stupid.

It's obvious - Bill Dembski is actually a covert atheist!
Good logic!


Atheist sans portfolio, perhaps? Interesting concept, that.

ID has been shown ad infinitum to be no more than creationism with a styrofoam cup; a three-card monte throw by an amature, to mix the metaphore a bit. Maybe all of the clumsey deciet is finally getting to him and it is showing up in coherence.

I note that Uncommon Descent, that fount of Dembski/DaveScott wisdom, has yet to mention the 'hobbit' wrist. This hints at their having no rebuttal and are now hoping it'll just go away and/or be forgotten. Either that or they're a'workin' up a doozy, and if so, I'm a'lookin' forward to it!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2007 :  06:16:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Filthy said:
I note that Uncommon Descent, that fount of Dembski/DaveScott wisdom, has yet to mention the 'hobbit' wrist. This hints at their having no rebuttal and are now hoping it'll just go away and/or be forgotten. Either that or they're a'workin' up a doozy, and if so, I'm a'lookin' forward to it!
Maybe Specified Complexity is simply too high and mighty a "theory" to actually apply to real-world discoveries.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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