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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2007 : 06:33:39
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Sam Harris says:
| My concern with the use of the term “atheism” is both philosophical and strategic. I'm speaking from a somewhat unusual and perhaps paradoxical position because, while I am now one of the public voices of atheism, I never thought of myself as an atheist before being inducted to speak as one. I didn't even use the term in The End of Faith, which remains my most substantial criticism of religion. And, as I argued briefly in Letter to a Christian Nation, I think that “atheist” is a term that we do not need, in the same way that we don't need a word for someone who rejects astrology. We simply do not call people “non-astrologers.” All we need are words like “reason” and “evidence” and “common sense” and “bullshit” to put astrologers in their place, and so it could be with religion. |
You know, I think there are some people who call themselves skeptics. Would that count? He also says there is no term for non-racist. Would civil rights activist count? Or the dozens of other labels like liberal this or liberal that or social this or social that, or progressive or leftist, or .....
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 06:43:21 [Permalink]
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"Atheist" will do me fine. Anything but "Bright." Yech!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 06:44:21 [Permalink]
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| More discussion here |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 07:29:13 [Permalink]
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| "anuminist" is still taking members, that is those who are without religious or spiritual characteristics. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 07:31:29 [Permalink]
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Now I really disagree:We should not call ourselves 'humanists,' or 'secular humanists,' or 'naturalists,' or 'skeptics,' or 'anti-theists,' or 'rationalists,' or 'freethinkers,' or 'brights.' We should not call ourselves anything. We should go under the radar -- for the rest of our lives. And while there, we should be decent, responsible people who destroy bad ideas wherever we find them."
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A name defines us as what we do. In an era of massive theist dominance, it's realistic and practical to call ourselves atheists, as we're opposing theism.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 07:33:09 [Permalink]
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Atheist == One who does not believe in God (or the gods).
"Bright" == There is not God, and we are his anointed.  |
The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 07:34:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Now I really disagree:We should not call ourselves 'humanists,' or 'secular humanists,' or 'naturalists,' or 'skeptics,' or 'anti-theists,' or 'rationalists,' or 'freethinkers,' or 'brights.' We should not call ourselves anything. We should go under the radar -- for the rest of our lives. And while there, we should be decent, responsible people who destroy bad ideas wherever we find them."
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A name defines us as what we do. In an era of massive theist dominance, it's realistic and practical to call ourselves atheists, as we're opposing theism.
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Actually, aren't we really opposing fundamentalists/extremists? Are moderate theists a threat?
Perhaps we could be "afundies" or "aextremes". |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2007 : 08:03:27 [Permalink]
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Godless, blasphemous, fucking heretic'll work for me -- after all, what's in a name?
"'Tis not the name of the rose that's worthy of note, but it's effect upon those who experience it." Dunno who said that. Mighta been me. Or not <shrug>...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 08:26:59 [Permalink]
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| Skeptic |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/04/2007 08:29:44 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2007 : 08:32:08 [Permalink]
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Seems to me we miss the point if we come up with any word to describe ourselves based on Harris's argument.
I also think he is wrong.
Language happens. Whether we need the term or not, we are stuck with it. “Skeptic” is perfectly fine when regarding astrology. And “Atheist” or “Agnostic” have a meaning with regard to religion.
If he is suggesting that he doesn't want to self identify that way, I would say that he should not self identify that way. Who cares?
Okay, Sam is that guy who calls bullshit on religion. Whatever…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 08:40:21 [Permalink]
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| Atheist is the only term you need for someone who lacks a belief in god. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 08:55:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
You know, I think there are some people who call themselves skeptics. Would that count? He also says there is no term for non-racist. Would civil rights activist count? Or the dozens of other labels like liberal this or liberal that or social this or social that, or progressive or leftist, or ..... |
I would say, when racism was as dominant as religion is today, those "non-racists" were called "abolitionists." |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 09:33:35 [Permalink]
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I would say, when racism was as dominant as religion is today, those "non-racists" were called "abolitionists."
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Well said, yes. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 10:00:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Now I really disagree:We should not call ourselves 'humanists,' or 'secular humanists,' or 'naturalists,' or 'skeptics,' or 'anti-theists,' or 'rationalists,' or 'freethinkers,' or 'brights.' We should not call ourselves anything. We should go under the radar -- for the rest of our lives. And while there, we should be decent, responsible people who destroy bad ideas wherever we find them."
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A name defines us as what we do. In an era of massive theist dominance, it's realistic and practical to call ourselves atheists, as we're opposing theism.
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Actually, aren't we really opposing fundamentalists/extremists? Are moderate theists a threat?
Perhaps we could be "afundies" or "aextremes".
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As far as being an atheist is concerned, the main thing is not accepting theism. Beyond that, one may or may not choose to actively oppose it. Or one might oppose or not oppose theists of all or certain stripes. I oppose theism rather than theists in general. Theism, even where it's not an active evil, undermines critical thinking, and makes people focus less upon their fellows.
By any other name, this rose. I suppose I oppose, if certain conditions arose, some fundy theist Joes. For those, them that truly blows, stomp on their toes, punch 'em in the nose.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/04/2007 10:05:15 |
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The Problem with Atheism
