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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2008 :  07:09:12  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On a side note, UPN has a new show exposing the secrets of psychics, check it out.

2008 psychcic contest
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9221

Stock Pick Update, its fugly
Name-current-purchase price
MAXE -2.60-2.89
GM -23.07-28.21
CSCO -24.29-24.50
WB -29.48-39.47
CSGS -10.80-12.76
LTSR -47.31-50.03
AAPL -124.62-135.36
GOOG -444.60-564.30
SLB -84.55-74.50
KYO -82.70-80.02
GE -33.52-35.36
SI -127.08-130.05
HPQ -48.45-43.72
HD -26.87-30.64
SNE -46.69-47.50
WMI -33.03-32.41
IBM -115.71-107.11
XOM -86.69-86.40
GLW -23.11-24.16
PFE -22.24-23.36
TM -105.26-108.32
COKE -60.11-60.06

Earthquake prediction
Pleco, with the 9-point prediction west of Medan, Sumatra, so far.

Barrel of Oil
Big Papa and Pleco are within 5%

Dollar-Euro Conversion

1 Dollar =.65Euro
Big Papa and Robb are within 5%

Terror attacks/movies/hurricanes/deadpool, not enough data


"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2008 :  07:23:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah bitches! Just a matter of time before you witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational psychic ability!

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2008 :  16:35:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do we get credit for getting every answer wrong?


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2008 :  16:40:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Do we get credit for getting every answer wrong?
Sure we do. It's called Psi Missing, sort of like negative ESP, where the results of one's psychic abilities are actually worse than chance.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2008 :  17:51:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Do we get credit for getting every answer wrong?
I bet my predictions were wronger.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2008 :  07:14:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe should have raised my end of year oil prediction to $120. Cause it looks like a $5 bump every 3 months now.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Nightwolf
New Member

23 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  06:57:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Nightwolf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey guys I am new here and I realy am not a skeptic. Well let me ask you guys something being a skeptic is following the scientific procedures right well. Everyone is inherently psychic the only thing is if you choose to develop it, thats up to you. Now how many of you guys have actually tried learning something about it. Let me give you guys a simple thing to be psychic is to be aware of the world around you without using the standard 5 sences that we all are born with. In order to develop your 6th sense the best way to get there would be to meditate. And to do it for a while. Lets say at least until you can get into a trance... if you guys still dont know this stuff look it up on wikipedia.

Ok so my test to you scientific guys out there in skepticland is to meditate for at least 2 months and see where that leads you.

The only way for you guys to truely know if there is something more than meets this world is to try it out for yourself. Dont listen to what other people say, just so that you have your own answers. Until you have tested it out for yourself all you really have is speculation. And that my friends is not scientific at all...

Sincerely,
Nightwolf

Some people take Skepticism is a religion. It isn't its to question everything till ultimately finding the truth. If that is your case then we are on the same path then.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  07:20:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey why not waste your own time, prove that YOU are psychic, so we dont have to. Id be happy to judge your picks if you would like to submit a late entry, you won't be qualified for the prize package but I'm sure you'll will wow us, nevertheless.

Oh and "trust me I swear" is about as anti-scientific as it comes, you hypocrite.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  07:51:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Nightwolf

Ok so my test to you scientific guys out there in skepticland is to meditate for at least 2 months and see where that leads you.
It led me precisely nowhere, back when I was a believer in many new-agey things (including psychic abilities).

But welcome to the SFN!

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  07:56:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also what exactly do you claim to be possible with meditation? "Psychic" is a broad paintbrush on a small canvas.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  09:32:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Let me give you guys a simple thing to be psychic is to be aware of the world around you without using the standard 5 sences that we all are born with.


Humans have way more than 5 senses.


Ok so my test to you scientific guys out there in skepticland is to meditate for at least 2 months and see where that leads you.


I'll agree only if for every second that I meditate, you spend equal time jumping up and down trying to knock the Earth off its orbit.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 03/13/2008 09:32:32
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  10:17:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nightwolf.....

You are not really a skeptic, but you are really a comedian. You are a riot! Tell me the truth, are you a professional performer? I about laughed myself silly at your "stupid" persona and the caricature of a woo-woo, meditating "psychic" is hilarious!

Welcome to SFN, Werewolf, you can be our new court jester!
Edited by - bngbuck on 03/15/2008 01:40:02
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Nightwolf
New Member

23 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  16:42:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Nightwolf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm which to reply first... well lets start from the first one then.

Well BigPapaSmurf I dont need to prove you guys anything because what ever I will ever show you guys you will always deny it. Its in your believe system. So I just wanted to see if you guys would do a scientific test, to find out the answer and could you also clarify why you called me a hypocrite please. Thanks you for replying too.

Thanks Dave W. thats very nice I know it seems like it gets nowhere but with time you will feel the world around you in the least case it has been scientifically proven that meditation helps with stress... and I think that you guys know what that is. ;)

BigPapaSmurf you are correct it depends on your natural ability to learn this stuff. So I never really promise anything to anyone let me give you an example. I know that you know people who are great with english and that stuff but suck at math right? Or the other way around that they have always done well in math but are terrible at english. But with the amount of practice someone does the eventually can do some mathematics or english. So its the same with being I guess as you put it "psychic".

Hmmm I never knew that Ricky the sexual touch sense... interesting. Thanks for sharing. And that knocking the earth off its orbit I believe I dont have the mass enough to acomplish the job.

And finally bngbuck why do you try so hard to hurt my feelings? Let me ask you something being a skeptic in your case does it require to be rude as well? Just because of a little test? I have not said anything to offend anyone, but is it because of my believes that are completely different from you, need to go and name bashing, because your not at peace with your own believes and worry when anybody challenges them you must insult? Think about that I dont hate you guys in anyway even you bngbuck.

Sincerely,
Nightwolf

Some people take Skepticism is a religion. It isn't its to question everything till ultimately finding the truth. If that is your case then we are on the same path then.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  17:53:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Nightwolf
Well BigPapaSmurf I dont need to prove you guys anything because what ever I will ever show you guys you will always deny it. Its in your believe system. So I just wanted to see if you guys would do a scientific test, to find out the answer and could you also clarify why you called me a hypocrite please.
Nightwolf, pleasantries aside, it is clear that you don't know the first thing about science or critical thinking. Practicing meditation to see if it works is not scientific because that's a subjective evaluation. Science seeks to eliminate the subjective. Nothing is assumed. There is no "belief system." It seeks objective, empirical, repeatable results. It's seeks valid evidence.

Now, you made a pretty astounding claim: "Everyone is inherently psychic the only thing is if you choose to develop it, thats up to you." But why should anyone believe such a thing? There has never been a single undisputed case of psychic ability in the history of the world. If we can't find one rock solid psychic, it's preposterous to presume that everyone can do it.

You seem to have come here just to convince yourself that you tried to open some minds, but we skeptics proved ourselves to be cynical sticks-in-the-mud. However, from our point of view, you're just another rube in a long line of people who have convinced themselves of something that simply isn't true. The fact that you are certain of the validity of a phenomenon for which you can provide no compelling evidence says much more about your mindset than ours. Who do you think knows more about psychics and ESP, you or us?

Are you even aware of the tricks your mind can play on you, like apophenia or pareidolia, and how to avoid them? Could you spot an example of cold reading or apply Occam's razor? Do you look to avoid communal reinforcement, confirmation bias, the placebo effect, the post hoc fallacy, selective thinking, self-deception, subjective validation, and wishful thinking? Have you read up on the ganzfeld experiments or the work of P.E.A.R.? Are you familiar with the unaddressed criticisms of these experiments, including serious methodological flaws like the experimenter effect, or the limitations of meta analysis?

Because if you aren't, then you have a lot of nerve waltzing in here and lecturing skeptics about how to conduct a "scientific" examination of the psychic benefits of long term meditation. You might think you were being polite in your language, but the sheer ignorance and arrogance you exhibit by suggesting to us that unless we attempt a logical fallacy we aren't being scientific is, well, extremely irritating to many here. Your preconceptions and assumptions are wrong, but your attitude ensures that they won't change. Try a different tack.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  18:11:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nightwolf, I have meditated, and yes, it can be a stress reliever, which says nothing about psychic abilities. I meditated for years. Now and then I still use it as a stress reliever. But so what?

Not once, in all the time I have been doing that, and not once, back when I did it with "believers" did I feel, did I see, or hear of any meditator doing anything that couldn't be easily explained without adding psi to the equation.

So I will ask you now to define psychic ability, as it pertains to meditation, and list what can be done that can not be logically explained in a more mundane way. I'm all ears.

And let me tell you, I would not have a skeptical meltdown and would be happy to be convinced that psi exists.

What have you got?

And welcome to SFN...

Edited to add:

By the way, as Humbert pointed out, the test you propose would not be scientific. It could only render anecdotal results. A scientific experiment, of the kind you propose, must be strictly controlled and be done with a large sampling to be of any scientific value.






Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2008 :  18:21:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Nightwolf

Well BigPapaSmurf I dont need to prove you guys anything because what ever I will ever show you guys you will always deny it.
And that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. By not proving anything to us, you prove to yourself that we are all bigoted denialists. If we weren't being so nice to each other, one might call your statement "close-minded prejudice."
Its in your believe system.
No, you're completely wrong, there.
So I just wanted to see if you guys would do a scientific test...
No you didn't. There's nothing scientific about telling us to go meditate for two months.
Thanks Dave W. thats very nice I know it seems like it gets nowhere but with time you will feel the world around you...
I feel the world around me by actually feeling the world around me, not by closing myself off in meditation (which I did for a lot more than two months, anyway).
...in the least case it has been scientifically proven that meditation helps with stress...
But that has nothing to do with psychic powers, or anything else out of the ordinary. Relaxation reduces stress: who'da thunk it?!
I have not said anything to offend anyone...
Yes, you have. That you can't see that surely means that you're not feeling "the world around you" correctly. You might want to go meditate on how you can simultaneously be so wrong and yet so sure of yourself (on several different subjects). Or, you might want to just think about it.
...I dont hate you guys in anyway...
It doesn't require hate to be offensive. If you want to avoid being offensive, then it's best to simply avoid being offensive, instead of congratulating yourself on not hating anyone.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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