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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  18:58:22  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just when I thought the Clinton campaign couldn't suprise me any more, this happens:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/11/ferraro.comments/index.html

If Hillary wins the nomination by some miracle, she may well destroy her party and will certainly lose the election. Having a proxy like Ferraro make comments like this to change the tone of the campaign is pretty low. Probably the lowest we've seen to date from this campaign.

When McCain is elected President because of crap like this I hope they blame her the way Nader was blamed for 2000. I think it's sad that Hillary is willing to destroy her party to further her own ambitions. People have said for years that Hillary is a polarizing figure. Now we see why. She works hard at it.

And all this for a longshot. Democrats should be angry.

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  19:05:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am no Hillary fan, but how do you know Ferraro was speaking for her? I want to see how this plays out...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  19:13:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by @tomic

Just when I thought the Clinton campaign couldn't suprise me any more, this happens:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/11/ferraro.comments/index.html

If Hillary wins the nomination by some miracle, she may well destroy her party and will certainly lose the election. Having a proxy like Ferraro make comments like this to change the tone of the campaign is pretty low. Probably the lowest we've seen to date from this campaign.

When McCain is elected President because of crap like this I hope they blame her the way Nader was blamed for 2000. I think it's sad that Hillary is willing to destroy her party to further her own ambitions. People have said for years that Hillary is a polarizing figure. Now we see why. She works hard at it.

And all this for a longshot. Democrats should be angry.

@



What the hell is her problem?

She was Mondale's VP candidate in the 80's.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  19:26:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I expect the Democrats to make nice with one another once the nomination is settled. This is a fierce campaign, as is so common. But Democratic Party supporters will demand, and get, some pretty sold unity behind the nominee after it's all over.

I honestly don't know what Ferraro's race-baiting's all about, whether it was her own senile demetia, or part of a Clinton plan. The onus falls on Hillary now to clearly disavow Ferraro's comments. If she doesn't, it's a fair assumption that Ferraro was speaking for Hillary.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  19:40:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

I expect the Democrats to make nice with one another once the nomination is settled. This is a fierce campaign, as is so common. But Democratic Party supporters will demand, and get, some pretty sold unity behind the nominee after it's all over.

I honestly don't know what Ferraro's race-baiting's all about, whether it was her own senile demetia, or part of a Clinton plan. The onus falls on Hillary now to clearly disavow Ferraro's comments. If she doesn't, it's a fair assumption that Ferraro was speaking for Hillary.


Well, right now her campaign staff is disavowing the remarks as per the article. It's now up to Hillary to remove Ferraro from her post, I suppose. And let's not forget the "monster" remark coming from the other side...

Again, I will wait to see how this plays out before passing judgment.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  19:53:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That woman that made the "monster" comment was clearly out of control and made another statement regarding Iraq that the Obama campaign couldn't have wanted. She was dismissed immediately. Not so Ferraro.

The Democratic Party itself should come out and say something about this. Statements like this could tear the party apart at the seams.

Hillary's campaign needs to do more than distance itself from Ferraro before irreparable harm is done. Offensiveness of that order can't be tolerated.

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting
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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  19:56:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

I expect the Democrats to make nice with one another once the nomination is settled. This is a fierce campaign, as is so common. But Democratic Party supporters will demand, and get, some pretty sold unity behind the nominee after it's all over.


If the campaign continues to escalate like this I wouldn't be too sure. There's only so much anyone can take. In the meantime, Nader is there to scoop up the disillusioned.

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting
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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2008 :  22:42:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by HalfMooner

I expect the Democrats to make nice with one another once the nomination is settled. This is a fierce campaign, as is so common. But Democratic Party supporters will demand, and get, some pretty sold unity behind the nominee after it's all over.

I honestly don't know what Ferraro's race-baiting's all about, whether it was her own senile demetia, or part of a Clinton plan. The onus falls on Hillary now to clearly disavow Ferraro's comments. If she doesn't, it's a fair assumption that Ferraro was speaking for Hillary.


Well, right now her campaign staff is disavowing the remarks as per the article. It's now up to Hillary to remove Ferraro from her post, I suppose. And let's not forget the "monster" remark coming from the other side...

Again, I will wait to see how this plays out before passing judgment.


Does this change your mind at all? Instead of disavowing Ferraro's comments, Maggie Williams issued this statement:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=6483

I'd say they agree with Ferraro if anything. Hillary is just paying someone else to say it for her. Real classy.

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2008 :  03:07:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm fed up with the whole, fucking thing. It has come down to wading through pigshit looking for a sow's ear to cast before swine. I'm still kinda/sorta following it along mainly because there is no escape, but won't pay close attention again until the NC primary. I doubt I'll miss much of any substance.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2008 :  03:35:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In her first interview with Daily Breeze, published late last week, Ferraro said, "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

She also said Hillary Clinton had been the victim of a "sexist media."
So Obama is lucky to be black, but Clinton is discriminated against for being a woman!? Oh come on; You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Even if Obama's race help him with some voters, it will hurt him with others. Same with Clinton's gender. More importantly, both are qualified candidates who got this far much more because of those other traits! So why all this emphasis on bullshit that obscures the issues and can't be measured?

I'm so sick of this identity politics crap. Especially as a voter who was planning on voting for Edwards based on issues and will now vote for Obama based on issues. Obama responded saying he was insulted by these comments. As a voter, so am I.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2008 :  03:40:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From the Maggie Williams statement @tomic just posted:
Senator Obama's campaign staff seems to have forgotten his pledge. We have not. And, we reject these false, personal and politically calculated attacks on the eve of a primary. This campaign should be about the leadership we need for a better future and these attacks serve only to divide the Democratic Party and the American people.
Talking out both sides of her mouth in the same paragraph - damn.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2008 :  03:51:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Team Clinton to Stop at Nothing: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23337542-5015664,00.html

I'm still pissed about the phone call at 3AM call. Because people who respond to those kind of scare tactics are most likely to want McCain answering the phone. Just go to the 3 candidates' websites and see which is uber-military. And then Clinton accuses Obama of taking a page out of Carl Rove's playbook. If she manages to steal this election with the help of superdelegates (because that's the only chance she's got) she will surely lose in a national election. I wasn't fond of her before, but now I'd cringe while voting for her. It would truly be a vote against trigger-happy, hypocrite McCain. But a lot of people won't even bother or will warm up to McCain's image as a "maverick" and "reformer" and all that crap.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2008 :  07:29:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If she manages to steal this election with the help of superdelegates (because that's the only chance she's got) she will surely lose in a national election.

She won't get my vote in those circumstances. I think I fair number of people feel the same way.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2008 :  08:54:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another irony: Bill Clinton was 47 when he became present, only a couple years older than Barack Obama. He was an elected attorney general for 2 years in an uncontested election and then Govenor of one of the least populated states in the union. He largely won the Presidency based on charisma. (Ross Perot taking votes away from Bush helped too.)

Hillary herself has been a lawyer and very involved Governor and then President's wife, and her first major initiative (health care) totally failed. She has less years experience as an elected official than Obama, and it's pretty clear that she ran for NY Senator because of Presidential ambitions and was elected because she could ride on the coattails of Bill.

This "lack of experience" criticism of Obama - the only attack which hasn't involved calling attention to his race or making false claims about his religion - is nothing but a red herring. They attack that because there is nothing legitimate to attack.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 03/12/2008 08:55:44
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2008 :  08:59:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dude wrote:
She won't get my vote in those circumstances. I think I fair number of people feel the same way.
What would you do? Sit it out or vote for McCain, and why?

I imagine a lot of angry people would sit it out.

If she wins this thing we are all screwed.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2008 :  09:37:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What Hillary herself should have said was, "The buck stops with me. I personally disavow and condemn Geraldine Ferraro's recent, repeated comments about Senator Obama as being racially divisive and having no positive role in American politics. I have made it clear to Ms. Ferraro that she is no longer a part of my campaign."

If Hillary is nominated, I, too will cringe. But I'd vote for her over McCain as an act of desperate self-defense.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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