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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 04/29/2008 : 12:27:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
[brIt's pretty plain that the thing is creationist porn, propaganda for ignorance and obscurantism. How could a guy like this do a thing like that?
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-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 04/29/2008 12:28:09 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2008 : 13:15:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Well, I can't post, but guess who can? |
Good grief! Dembski points to Sheldrake's experience with Dawkins as being an example of Dawkins doing the same thing that the producers of Expelled did to Dawkins, and yet in the final cut of The Enemies of Reason, it looks like Sheldrake doesn't appear.
Sounds to me like Dawkins' producers said, "well, he was lied to, we can't use the interview under false pretenses like that."
Did the Expelled producers do that? No.
Dembski has to behave better in order to be favorably compared to pond scum. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/29/2008 : 18:21:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Okay, so the weekend numbers are still estimates, but Monday's take - $157,191 - is not. $151 per theater.
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Heh, that'll almost pay the nut on the popcorn. Maybe next weekend will be more impressive, but it doesn't seem likely. This thing looks to be winding down like grandpa's busted turnip watch. They'll have to start flogging DVDs & so forth earlier than anticipated, I think. Depending, of course, on lawsuits.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2008 : 21:10:46 [Permalink]
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A lot has been made of Expelled being #8 on the list of political documentaries for opening weekend gross, but such a figure is, of course, misleading due to differences in number of theaters and inflation. Of the 87 political documentaries since 1982, after normalizing the figures for both inflation and number of theaters, Expelled drops to being #53 out of the 80 films for which there is opening weekend data. That's 33rd percentile.
Obviously, doing this raw is unfair to Expelled because single-theater openers may have been at expensive theaters where the ticket price was much higher than average, but since my calculations can only go by average ticket price when guaging inflation, the smaller openers would have a distinct advantage mathematically. If we remove all single-theater openers from the list (bye-bye #2 Sicko), Expelled moves to #27 out of 41 (33rd percentile). If we remove all two-theater openers, the film moves to #19 out of 28 (31st percentile). Three-theater openers: #17 out of 24 (28th percentile). Four-theater openers (bye-bye to #1 Inconvenient Truth and now-#2 Roger and Me): #14 out of 20 (29th percentile). If we remove everything that had fewer than ten opening theaters (bye-bye to now-#1 Bowling for Columbine), Expelled moves to #6 out of 11 documentaries (50th percentile).
And if we drop all films that opened in fewer than 100 theaters, then Expelled moves to #2 out of 5 documentaries.
Once numbers are corrected for breadth of opening and inflation, Expelled only does well (halfway up the list or higher) if we ignore documentaries with small (fewer than ten theater) openings.
But thus corrected, Fahrenheit 9/11 (to which, again, the producers of Expelled seemed to want to be compared) would have raked in more than ten times as much cash on its opening weekend as Expelled (10.81 times, to be more precise).
I'm going to look at this from an all-documentaries perspective, also, but there are over 500 movies in that category, so it might take some time. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 03:40:51 [Permalink]
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But.... but... but, it's not creationism, I tells you! Australian Media on EXPELLED
William Dembski
In reading an Australian news report on Ben Stein's EXPELLED, I came across this paragraph (go here for full story):
Stein is [a man] with a mission: to prove US academics are being expelled from universities for daring to suggest creationism should be taught in science classes. And to prove that creationism — the belief that God created everything in six days, a creed accepted by 80 per cent of Americans — is the only riposte to Darwinism. Evolution, in Stein's narrative, is linked to “communism, the Berlin Wall, the Holocaust and planned parenthood”.
Whereas the American media by now understands that ID is different from young-earth creationism, it appears that some of the foreign media are still clueless. I would encourage readers of this blog to contact the author of this ridiculous comment — John Harlow — and try to talk some sense into him.
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It's not, huh? Does the above sound familiar -- take a conclusion and then try to hammer-shape the facts to fit it? ID is a chip off the ol' block, Billy-boy, the Ozzies know it, and your asinine Expelled bit of cinematographic codswallop proves it.
But dry your tears, for, "this too shall pass." And so will Phillip Johnson's dream of religious, academic tyranny replacing scientific theory. Next time you see him, say "hey" to ol' Phil for me, will you? I'm sure he'll appreciate it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 04/30/2008 03:48:47 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 05:32:00 [Permalink]
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Oh yeah, look at comment number five. "ID is not creationism" my ass!
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 05:46:25 [Permalink]
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Why it's none other than my old friend, Jonathon Sarfati! Good to see ol' Jon's still out & about, and as ridiculous an aplologist as ever.
Wanna torque hs jaws, Ig? Accuse him of quote-mining. Some years back, I did over at TWeb. "Socrates" ignored me for a couple of weeks.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 06:09:25 [Permalink]
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The friendly atheist, check his article and source...
Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. [PZ] Myers, talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed.
...
Stein (speaking about the Holocaust): ...that was horrifying beyond words, and that's where science -- in my opinion, this is just an opinion -- that's where science leads you.
Crouch: That's right.
Stein: ... Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.
Crouch: Good word, good word. |
Holy shit. Talk about lying and historical ignorance. This is "Ray Comfort" level stupid here.
Naturally, I contacted the TBN people who aired that piece of shit, but they have a low character limit for their emails, so this is all I could say:
About Ben Stein's on Crouch's show: wrong. There's a lot more I could say:
The Popes Against the Jews: The Vatican's Role in the Rise of Modern Anti-Semitism
by David I. Kertzer
"After Auschwitz: Religion and the Origins of the Death Camps."
"Theologian Richard Rubenstein wrote that the Nazis "did not invent a new villain...They took over the 2,000-year-old Christian trdition of the Jew as villain...The roots of the death camps must be sought in the mythic structure of Christianity. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 04/30/2008 06:43:40 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 06:22:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
The friendly atheist, check his article and source...
Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. [PZ] Myers, talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed.
...
Stein (speaking about the Holocaust): ...that was horrifying beyond words, and that's where science -- in my opinion, this is just an opinion -- that's where science leads you.
Crouch: That's right.
Stein: ... Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.
Crouch: Good word, good word. |
Holy shit. Talk about lying and historical ignorance. This is "Ray Comfort" level stupid here.
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It's almost like Falwell & Robertson and how they swaped rhetorical kisses, before Jerry was called to that Great Hawg Trough in the Sky, isn't it?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 08:05:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Why it's none other than my old friend, Jonathon Sarfati! Good to see ol' Jon's still out & about, and as ridiculous an aplologist as ever.
Wanna torque hs jaws, Ig? Accuse him of quote-mining. Some years back, I did over at TWeb. "Socrates" ignored me for a couple of weeks.
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Can't. Remember, none of my comments ever make it through on that site. None have for a long time now.
So, I've done the next best thing. I've written to the guy who published the article that they're complaining about, complimenting him on his catch of ID ism and YEC ism:
arts@theaustralian.com.au
From: Reynold Hall
To: John Harlow
I'm writing in regards to your insightful article "Ferris Bueller's way off as creationist damns Dawkins" on April 30, 2008. The ID crowd keeps going on and on about how "intelligent design" is not "creationism".
Unfortunately for them, they got caught out in the Dover trial.
For more information, check out
http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/11/missing_link_cd.html
That article talks about how Barbara Forrest caught this on the sixth day of the Trial:
-----
Creation Biology (1983), p. 3-34: "Evolutionists think the former is correct; creationists because of all the evidence discussed in this book, conclude the latter is correct."
Biology and Creation (1986), p. 3-33: "Evolutionists think the former is correct, creationists accept the latter view."
Biology and Origins (1987), p. 3-38: "Evolutionists think the former is correct, creationists accept the latter view."
Of Pandas and People (1987, creationist version), p. 3-40: "Evolutionists think the former is correct, creationists accept the latter view."
Of Pandas and People (1987, "intelligent design" version), p. 3-41: "Evolutionists think the former is correct, cdesign proponentsists accept the latter view."
------
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dover/day6am2.html#day6am889
It's nice to see how some people aren't falling for their ploy. Sure, some of the basic tenets are different; they don't talk about the age of the earth much or the globabl flood, but a cursory scan of the literature shows that "intelligent design" is just a re-packaged form of creationism to try to get past previous court rulings in the U.S. that said that YE creationism was "unconstitutional".
If you check out the court transcripts for the Dover trial, they bring up the "Wedge Document" where the Discovery Institute says outright that it's goal is to replace the "materialist" culture with one that has christian theism as its base.
Hopefully some of this information will be useful when the ID people come calling. It seems they've taken exception to your review:
http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/australian-media-on-expelled/
Dembski's calling on his people to "talk some sense" into you.
Ironically enough, even though Dembski insists that ID is not creationism, the fifth comment there is by a well known young-earth creationist, Jonathan Sarfati of Creation Ministries International, who posts a link to their site. They're sponsoring a "design friendly" event, but if you look around on their site, it's obvious that it's a young-earth, global flood preaching group.
Go figure.
PS: If you really want some fun, go to Sarfati's Creation Ministries International home page and check out the side for their affiliated sites. One of them is this:
http://www.alienintrusion.com/
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 04/30/2008 08:10:22 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 10:16:11 [Permalink]
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Something else. It seems I just caught one of the pro-ID people, though not a member of the DI itself, lying.
Jason, I just noticed something. In your "complete profile" page, you list ExpelledExposed as one of your blogs...yet when you click on the link (http://expelledexposed.blogspot.com/) it doesn't take you to the http://www.expelledexposed.com/ website. It just takes you to the site of the Expelled movie itself.
Is this another example of the Expelled people's dishonesty here, or is that a mistake you're going to correct, since there is no such blog named "Expelled Exposed"? |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 11:02:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I'm going to look at this from an all-documentaries perspective, also, but there are over 500 movies in that category, so it might take some time. |
And some time it took. Expelled is 372nd out of all 509 documentaries with opening-weekend figures using corrected data (27th percentile). Here are all the stats when we start dropping films with small openings:
All films | 372nd out of 509 | 27th
2+ openers only | 161st out of 229 | 30th
3+ | 108th out of 157 | 31st
4+ | 83rd out of 123 | 33rd
5+ | 63rd out of 97 | 35th
6+ | 47th out of 80 | 42nd
7+ | 40th out of 71 | 44th
8+ | 35th out of 64 | 46th
9+ | 28th out of 53 | 48th
10+ | 26th out of 50 | 49th
11+ | 24th out of 47 | 50th
12+ | 22nd out of 45 | 52nd
13+ | 19th out of 40 | 54th
14+ | 19th out of 39 | 53rd
17+ | 18th out of 38 | 54th
19+ | 17th out of 36 | 54th
20+ | 17th out of 34 | 52nd
21+ | 16th out of 32 | 52nd
23+ | 15th out of 29 | 50th
26+ | 14th out of 27 | 50th
27+ | 12th out of 24 | 52nd
29+ | 12th out of 23 | 50th
32+ | 11th out of 22 | 52nd
33+ | 11th out of 21 | 50th
41+ | 10th out of 20 | 53rd
42+ | 9th out of 19 | 56th
51+ | 9th out of 18 | 53rd
60+ | 8th out of 17 | 50th
61+ | 8th out of 16 | 53rd
98+ | 8th out of 15 | 50th
102+ | 8th out of 14 | 46th
116+ | 8th out of 13 | 42nd
163+ | 8th out of 12 | 36th
243+ | 8th out of 11 | 30th
276+ | 8th out of 10 | 22nd
280+ | 7th out of 9 | 25th
302+ | 6th out of 8 | 29th
339+ | 5th out of 7 | 33rd
352+ | 5th out of 6 | 20th
561+ | 4th out of 5 | 25th
801+ | 3rd out of 4 | 33rd
868+ | 2nd out of 3 | 50th
962+ | 1st out of 2 | 100th
1,052+ | 1st out of 1 | n/a
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Expelled hovers between 20th percentile and 56th percentile until we knock Fahrenheit 9/11 out of the mix, leaving only Vince Vaughn's Wild West Comedy Show: 30 Days & 30 Nights - From Hollywood to the Heartland (with the second-highest number of opening screens) as Expelled's only [cough, cough] competition.
(Note that there were no films that opened in 15, 16 18 (etc.) theaters, so for "15+" and "16+" - for examples - the numbers would be that same as "17+")
(By the way, Imagine: John Lennon opened at 561 theaters earning $4.4 million corrected.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 11:10:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Something else. It seems I just caught one of the pro-ID people, though not a member of the DI itself, lying.
Jason, I just noticed something. In your "complete profile" page, you list ExpelledExposed as one of your blogs...yet when you click on the link (http://expelledexposed.blogspot.com/) it doesn't take you to the http://www.expelledexposed.com/ website. It just takes you to the site of the Expelled movie itself.
Is this another example of the Expelled people's dishonesty here, or is that a mistake you're going to correct, since there is no such blog named "Expelled Exposed"? |
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That's funny, although all they're doing is playing Republican-style politics. But I came across a pretty good essay on it: "Like a turd in the U bend, it won't go away." Devoid of intelligence
By resorting to deceit to get their story, the makers of the latest piece of creationist propaganda have done themselves no favours
Adam Rutherford
April 15, 2008 9:00 AM
Why won't intelligent design just go away? This week sees the US release of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, a documentary film that attacks the theory of evolution. As suggested by its subtitle it berates the rejection by the scientific community of intelligent design - the mock-science creationism that was banished from US science classrooms in 2005 and in the UK last year.
For those of us who follow the often irritable interaction between creationists and those of a more rational disposition, Expelled first entered our consciousness when it emerged that vocal critics of creationism, including Richard Dawkins and the brilliantly caustic science blogger P Z Myers, had been conned into giving interviews last year. They had been booked to appear in a film about the intersection of science and religion, not creationist propaganda. From the word go, the film-makers demonstrated their dishonesty.
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It's nothing that we didn't already know, but it's good to see Adam Rutherford, who is on the staff of Nature, give us a little more verification.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 12:39:41 [Permalink]
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Hah! You should see Jason's comeback to that accusation. He has a link to PZ Myers site where he tells people to do almost the same thing.
I said almost because when you mouse over the link Myers gives, you can see the real URL of the place you'd go to. With Jason, you see a fake URL, so you don't know you're being tricked until you actually click the link.
Well, I've posted my last reply there.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 04/30/2008 13:09:57 |
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Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed! ...Part 2
