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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2004 : 13:18:30 [Permalink]
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| Well, that certainly was a stellar post by Verlich. The last site in his post is amazing. This guy is hopless. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 13:33:10 [Permalink]
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Check out the Home page for Velrich's last three sites supporting his assumptions. The site is titled the Bible - UFO connection. oooohhhh boy. 
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 14:00:16 [Permalink]
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Da filth wept.
quote:
verlch is claiming that millions of fossilized trees have had their rings counted, and they were all about 2,000 years old when they died.
Documentation please.
quote:
I'm claiming that there should be a few fossilized trees that age way above all the 2000 year old trees that look like the younger trees fossilized in the flood. You should be able to find a forest of trees buried in the earth who's age was about 3500 years, with 400 million years of time. None of which I have read have even come close!
Why? And what meaning would it have if such were found? Or never found? What does this have to do with the ToE? Or anything else, for that matter? Again I ask, ad fucking nauseum; WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS HOW OLD A STUPID TREE WAS WHEN IT DIED?!
quote:
· 1908 The most famous man tracks are those on the banks of the Paluxy River, near Glen Rose, Texas. First observed in 1908, the massive number of finds reveals a mixture of man and animal types having lived all at the same time. There are heavy brontosaur tracks, the talon marks of the feared Tyrannosaurus Rex, three-toed tracks of other dinosaurs, and the imprint of a saber-tooth tiger, which was supposed to have lived only a few million years ago, not in the era of the giant lizards. A good number of the human prints are bare, others show signs of moccasins or thin sandals. In one instance the fossil print the impression of the lacing on the moccasin is still visible. Some human tracks show footprints with modern shoe sizes from 7 to 13, others are of children, whose prints are both proportionally smaller. Several however, are 16 inches and many with 21 inch feet and a seven-foot stride. In other words, they were giants. A most remarkable fact is that the human and dinosaur prints cross each other, showing that the two had both crossed when the rock had been mud. The significance of these examples was noted by Dr. A. E. Wilder Smith of the University of Illinois: "One authentic man-track found in the same stratum as one authentic brontosaurus track throws out one hundred years of evolutionary teachings. It is sufficient to bring the whole Darwinist theory down and revolutionize all biology today." The stratum, in which the tracks were found date to the early Cretaceous, between 120 and 130 million years.
Da filth stopped sniveling and collapsed in helpless laughter! The Glen Rose tracks are currently the big blather point of one Carl Baugh, if I've spelled that right. He boasts a doctorate from some diploma mill similar to Patriot University, a split-level house in Colorado and Kent Hovind's alma mater. He has a museum of sorts near the site. It is a grand production housed in a single-wide trailer.
The tracks have been shown to be all dino affected by erosion and a bit of fraud, here and there. I‘m too lazy to look it up at the moment, but I will provide references if asked.
quote:
1927 In Fisher Canyon, Pershing County, Nevada, in January, 1927, an imprint from the heel of a shoe which had been pulled up from the balance of the heel by suction, from the mud when the rock was still in a plastic state at the time. The shoe print was in a layer of Triassic limestone dated at 225 million years old. The rock was later examined at the Rockefeller Foundat |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 21:11:23 [Permalink]
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So If I find a man made artifact in your 5 billion year old piece of rock, how will you and your bros explain that away?
I have seen pictures of million year old coal with a gold chain stuck in it!
Speaking of hoaxes, how about the human skull, monkey jaw bone you had in Europe! How many are fooled by that? It worked until DNA figured it out, yet you still preach you theroy without facts. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 22:10:47 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
So If I find a man made artifact in your 5 billion year old piece of rock, how will you and your bros explain that away?
Please do find such an artifact. It would be very impressive, and require much rethinking of current theory.quote:
I have seen pictures of million year old coal with a gold chain stuck in it!
No, you've seen pictures of coal and a gold chain. A picture cannot be used to date coal, nor can it be used to verify how "stuck" the chain allegedly is. Or didn't you see the other thread, with the nifty hawk-rabbit photo?quote:
Speaking of hoaxes, how about the human skull, monkey jaw bone you had in Europe! How many are fooled by that?
That's what I demand from you. You implied that one or more people were convinced of evolutionary theory based upon the Piltdown Man hoax. I've asked you now, more than once, to support such an assertion with fact. You have not.quote:
It worked until DNA figured it out...
No, that hoax was found to be a hoax prior to our have such a good understanding of DNA that we could use it to distinguish two different animals. The hoax was exposed in the same year that Watson & Crick deduced the structure of DNA, fercryinoutloud (1953). It was also found to be a hoax by scientists, and not creationists (who have never been the ones to demonstrate a hoax, anyway).quote:
...yet you still preach you theroy without facts.
No, there are plenty of facts. You just choose to ignore them in favor of a 2,000-year-old book. I've listed 93 "facts" that you have apparently created out of thin air, or are repeating from other sources (and you've added more with your obelisk distractions), and you refuse to support any of them with any sort of evidence. Pull the log out of your own eye, hypocrite, before you attempt to remove the splinter from mine. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 03:06:30 [Permalink]
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Oh goody! Piltdown! What better way to start the day?! 
Y'know, I was wondering when we'd get to ol' Piltie. Rare indeed is the Creationist that has the fortitude to avoid it, even in casual conversation.
quote:
The Story Of The Hoax
In following the history of the hoax it is useful to have a time line showing the principal events. The time line runs as follows:
1856 -- Neanderthal man discovered
1856 -- Dryopithecus discovered
1859 -- Origin of Species published
1863 -- Moulin Quignon forgeries exposed
1869 -- Cro Magnon man discovered
1871 -- The Descent of Man published
1890 -- Java Man discovered
1898 -- Galley hill "man" discovered [modern, misinterpreted]
1903 -- First molar of Peking man found
1907 -- Heidelberg man discovered
1908 -- Dawson (1908-1911) discovers first Piltdown fragments
1909 -- Dawson and Teilhard de Chardin meet
1912 -- February: Dawson contacts Woodward about first skull fragments
1912 -- June: Dawson, Woodward, and Teilhard form digging team
1912 -- June: Team finds elephant molar, skull fragment
1912 -- June: Right parietal skull bones and the jaw bone discovered
1912 -- Summer: Barlow, Pycraft, G.E. Smith, and Lankester join team.
1912 -- November: News breaks in the popular press
1912 -- December: Official presentation of Piltdown man
1913 -- August: the canine tooth is found by Teilhard
1914 -- Tool made from fossil elephant thigh bone found
1914 -- Talgai (Australia) man found, considered confirming of Piltdown
1915 -- Piltdown II found by Dawson (according to Woodward)
1916 -- Dawson dies.
1917 -- Woodward announces discovery of Piltdown II.
1921 -- Osborn and Gregory "converted" by Piltdown II.
1921 -- Rhodesian man discovered
1923 -- Teilhard arrives in China.
1924 -- Dart makes first Australopithecus discovery.
1925 -- Edmonds reports Piltdown geology error. Report ignored.
1929 -- First skull of Peking man found.
1934 -- Ramapithecus discovered
1935 -- Many (38 individuals) Peking man fossils have been found.
1935 -- Swanscombe man [genuine] discovered.
1937 -- Marston attacks Piltdown age estimate, cites Edmonds.
1941 -- Peking man fossils lost in military action.
1943 -- Fluorine content test is first proposed.
1948 -- Woodward publishes The Earliest Englishman
1949 -- Fluorine content test establishes Piltdown man as relatively recent.
1951 -- Edmonds report no geological source for Piltdown animal fossils.
1953 -- Weiner, Le Gros Clark, and Oakley expose the hoax.
In 1856 the first Neanderthal fossil discovery was made and the hunt was on to find fossil remains of human ancestors. In the next half century finds were made in continental Europe and in Asia but not in Britain. Finally, in 1912, the sun rose on British paleontology -- fossil remains of an ancient pleistocene hominid were found in the Piltdown quarries in Sussex. In the period 1912 to 1915 the Piltdown quarries yielded two skulls, a canine tooth, and a mandible of Eoanthropus, a tool carved from an elephant tusk, and fossil teeth from a number of pleistocene animals.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown.html
You will of course note that it was science that exposed the fraud, not the church, which was too busy promoting myth and counting the take from the collection plate to bother with more than retoric. Per usual.
Actually, Piltdown was in doubt from the beginning, but it remained locked away in the London Museum of Natural History for many decades. Today, it is on display along with it's history.
Now, how ‘bout Nebraska Man? Are you gonna lay that turkey on us too? Please do. I love this sort of thing; just can't get enough of it! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/21/2004 03:37:09 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 03:23:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
So If I find a man made artifact in your 5 billion year old piece of rock, how will you and your bros explain that away?
I have seen pictures of million year old coal with a gold chain stuck in it!
Speaking of hoaxes, how about the human skull, monkey jaw bone you had in Europe! How many are fooled by that? It worked until DNA figured it out, yet you still preach you theroy without facts.
Sooo, there's an artifact in 5,000,000,000 year old rock, is there? Produce it, or at least a verifiable, peer reviewed paper on it, or I shall accuse you of perpretrating a hoax.
Gold chains in coal? Same thing. Put up or shut up.
We get accused by Creationists of faking the evidence all the time, while quite the contrary is the truth. Are there no depths that they will sink to in their promotion of young earth falsehood?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 06:27:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
The last website is the type of stuff you guys refuse to examine. It doesn't fit with the fairy-tale theory and therefore thrown in the trash, and branded as hog-wash and lies....Masons and Catholics are also very good at doing that....This website is different in my believe system, but I am pointing out that stuff is found in the rocks that cannot be explained!!!!!
Verlch, verlch, verlch; whatever will we do with you?
Haven't you come to realize by now that we defiantly do open these links and indeed, study them? And easily and factually explain all of these so-called mysteries? Hell, we even study the ones that give us the urge to put on our tinfoil hats before perusing them.
I feel a little insulted at the implication, bro. Are you suggesting that we are sloppy in our research or afraid to look at something that we might not agree with? If so, you are stone wrong.
You see, we too want the truth, indeed, we demand it. If you or anyone can come up with the Devonian Bunny -- remember the Devonian Bunny? We talked about the Devonian Bunny some ten miles or so back down the thread -- or it's equivalent, we will shitcan the ToE and never look back. Thus far, that legendary lagomorph is conspicuous by it's absence.
But Creationists continue work hard to bring B'rer Rabbit forth, as the few references you've given demonstrate. But their efforts amount to twisting around the honest work of others and range on to telling outright lies. That bible/ufo site was a fantasy that should be made into movie. It would be a comic, box-office smash -- why, I'd be first in line to buy the DVD.
And ya know what; we've seen and dealt with it all before. It's old news to us. I personally can refute every claim you've made just off the top of my head; not even bother to crack a reference. And I am the least educated of us.
I hate to say this (suurrre, I do ), but it is you who has been doing the ostrich act. How many of the links that you've been given have you actually opened? How much of Talk Origins, a site that contains virtual mountains of highly referenced, scientifically accurate information on the ToE, have you read? Never mind, I already know: exactly none.
And we've all seen that before as well.
Whadda ya want, verlch? Fact or fabrication? If it's fabrication, you won't find it here.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 07:31:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Sun worship originated in Babylon...
Hi, verlch. This has nothing to do with evolution vs. creationism so I won't discuss it here. However, know that this is wholly and completely 100% crap. I will address this issue on another thread in a more relevant forum. Look for it soon... |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 08:31:27 [Permalink]
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filthy, why'd you wait so long? verlch brought up Piltdown in his first post in the thread:quote:
How many people believed in evolution because of the human skull with the monkey jawbone?
(Of course, it was an orangutan jawbone, but let's not split hairs that finely.)
I've asked for evidence that even a single person was convinced of evolution due to the Piltdown hoax at least three times now. verlch refuses to supply any. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 09:37:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
filthy, why'd you wait so long? verlch brought up Piltdown in his first post in the thread:quote:
How many people believed in evolution because of the human skull with the monkey jawbone?
(Of course, it was an orangutan jawbone, but let's not split hairs that finely.)
I've asked for evidence that even a single person was convinced of evolution due to the Piltdown hoax at least three times now. verlch refuses to supply any.
The Big V brought up a lot of things in his first post. I was all tangled up in [snarl]trees[/snarl] and forgot about Piltdown. That hoax, I think, would not have gone on for so long if the skull had not been locked up. From what I've read, it was really a rather clumsy forgery. Someday, I'd like to get to London and see it. It has some historical intrest, if not scientific.
But it's not nearly as clumsy as what were seeing from desperate Creationists today! Gold chains in coal; fossilized foot in a cowboy boot; petrified dog halfway up a hollow tree (this is one of Hovind's fantasies); the London Hammer; trilobite in a footprint, and so forth.
So, what next? Where away, friend verlch?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/21/2004 09:39:50 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 13:51:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
http://www.ridgenet.net/~do_while/sage/ Science against Evolution...
From this page "Science against Evolution" my Dear Verlch provided, I gathered this quote:
quote:
There are only two documented cases of inanimate objects coming to life.
* Pinocchio
* Frosty the Snowman
Most scientists consider these two reports to be false.
I could safely bet that ALL scientists will agree that these two instances are work of fiction.
However... The page is dead wrong about there only being two "documented" cases of inanimate objects coming to life:
From Genesis 2:7 I read: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life"
Here we have an instance of Dust coming to life where there was none. But this is obfuscated by the authors of this page, who does not want to acknowledge the similarities between Adam and Pinocchio: Both given life and soul from a supernatural being.
If I were to enter this third case of inanimate object coming to life into that list of "science against evolution", most scientists would still agree that these three cases are work of fiction.
At first glance I can't disagree with my other Skeptic Friends' grievances against the page you provided Verlch. For the sake of being reasonable, why not acknowledge that there are lots of passages in the Bible that is not meant to be taken literally.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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