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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2004 : 14:17:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
It is a fact.
JREF gave $ 5000 from donations to a young girl called "Moefox".
C'mon bro. Just saying it doesn't make it so. I could say all kinds of things that I think are going on, here and there, but without solid evidence, I would be full of shit. So, I ain't sayin' 'em 'till such evidence turns up.
Do you know for sure that the $5,000 came from the JREF kitty? And if so, was it a clandestine transaction? Indeed, did the money even change hands at all? And do you have available even the least documentation in support of the claim?
Until the supporting evidence is forthcoming, I must regard the claim as unfounded.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 14:21:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
It is a fact.
JREF gave $ 5000 from donations to a young girl called "Moefox".
And I should care because...? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 14:46:31 [Permalink]
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Is it one of the principles of the "new skepticism" that repeating a claim is a substitute for evidence?
Or that taking utterly irrelevant cheap shots at anyone connected with the JREF somehow strengthens your (apparently nonexistent and certainly unintelligible) case?
Hal Bidlack has religious beliefs (to be exact, he identifies himself as a Deist). He's also a USAF officer, a political scientist by education and a college professor. If any of this biographical data has any relevance to his performance as the JREF forum admin, you should have explained it, because it surely isn't readily apparent.
And, while we're on the subject of people, I see that the subject of a scholarship has been bandied about and that the recipient is claimed to work as a stripper.
What in the name of Dowie and Ella Wheeler Wilcox has that to do with anything? I've known a couple of young ladies who played the titty-bar circuit and can see no reason in that either to assume that they are of bad character or to begrudge them any opportunity they might find to pursue learning.
So far, you have presented exactly zero evidence to support your allegations of fraud. What you have succeeded in doing is to add to the already ample pile of evidence, spread out over the 'net, that you're engaging in a personal hate campaign, slinging whatever bits of mud you think you've found, in the hope of pulling off a successful character assassination, all for the sake of avenging poor deluded Carlos Swett's little Prize debacle.
You may not yet have noticed, but both the failure to back up your claims and the flimsy ad hominem style of arguing aren't things that go over around here.
You've been behaving like an utter PISS-ANT.
I suggest quitting while you're still able to see above the rim of the hole you've dug for yourself.  |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 15:32:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
And besides, we can't just delete posts of people who disagree with us. Thats not very skeptical, now is it.
That was not the point! That is a fine example of a straw man.
If the consensus is that this thread should remain I have no problem with that. I find the level of moderation on this forum to be excellent and deletion of threads and other forms of censorship should be avoided if possible and only used with great care.
Sometimes they have to be used however. (Is it legal to keep slander on a internet forum?)
Maybe not this time.
First of all, you never pointed out (before this post) that your reason for deleting the post was for legal issues. You simply just said:
quote:
Delete this thread, it is just insulting to mr Randi!
So that is the point. They disagree with us, so we delete their post. What if we made a post (actually, we already have...) insulting Uri Geller? Is that ok? Why? Because you agree with it. If someone wishes to accuse Randi, they may do so. If their evidence is lacking, it only strengthens Randi.
We can't live in a world where we are afraid to attack someone because if we are wrong, we get punished. We need to have the freedom to attack whoever we want (verbally). If our attack is found lacking, then it is ignored.
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Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
| Edited by - Ricky on 12/12/2004 15:33:03 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 03:12:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
They disagree with us, so we delete their post.
Still a straw man...
Wanna try again?
(hint. Disagreeing does not equal libel.
For my part this matter was settled two weeks ago, but if you are going to misrepresent me I'm still going to call you on it.)
Edit to add : Also I did not just simply say.quote:
Delete this thread, it is just insulting to mr Randi!
That was one line out of 6 in the post!
Your quoting is actually dishonest! |
| Edited by - Starman on 12/13/2004 03:22:25 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 03:42:13 [Permalink]
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Bah! The argument is ridiculous.
Randi is a grown man who can certainly take care of himself. I've no doubt that he ignores attacks and slanders such as latinijral's on almost a daily basis. There is no need to dump a thread for no more reason than what has been posted thus far.
Say, has he ever sued anybody? I've never heard of it if he has. I think Geller made the mistake of hauling him into court a couple of times, but I don't know if it's happened t'other way 'round.
An interesting man, James Randi. I think I'll see if I can find his biography.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 05:20:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Bah! The argument is ridiculous.
Randi is a grown man who can certainly take care of himself. I've no doubt that he ignores attacks and slanders such as latinijral's on almost a daily basis. There is no need to dump a thread for no more reason than what has been posted thus far.
Which argument?
My initial post was perhaps an overreaction but I was unsure about the legal situation (thanks for the info Dave W) and even if I concede that this thread should remain, I still don't like it when SFN is used as a forum for libel.
Do you really think that libel and whisper campaigns are without effect? Should all kinds of libel be accepted on this board or is there a limit?
I think it would be interesting to see an evaluation of how much the Swift boat campaign cost Kerry(a grown man who can certainly take care of himself) in the election.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 08:55:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
The moron with Moefox is Lt. Col. Hal Bidlack, ex-JREF director.
I'm just now looking at this utterly stupid thread. I'm not sure what latinijral's problem is. So far, I've seen nothing but wild accusations which aren't really accusations but rather gossip or something.
But a point of clarity is in oder for the above photo. Earlier, the person "moefox" was qualified as a stripper or prostitute. Am I correct? And is it further correct that the above blonde is moefox? The blonde with the serious dental work? Ask yourself: when was the last time you saw a stripper with braces and rubber bands in her mouth? Maybe the $5000 was to pay for the orthodontist... |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 12/13/2004 08:56:29 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 09:53:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Bah! The argument is ridiculous.
Randi is a grown man who can certainly take care of himself. I've no doubt that he ignores attacks and slanders such as latinijral's on almost a daily basis. There is no need to dump a thread for no more reason than what has been posted thus far.
Which argument?
My initial post was perhaps an overreaction but I was unsure about the legal situation (thanks for the info Dave W) and even if I concede that this thread should remain, I still don't like it when SFN is used as a forum for libel.
Do you really think that libel and whisper campaigns are without effect? Should all kinds of libel be accepted on this board or is there a limit?
I think it would be interesting to see an evaluation of how much the Swift boat campaign cost Kerry(a grown man who can certainly take care of himself) in the election.
Kerry's problem was that he sat back ignored it for a month when he should have been laughing and kicking the Swift Boat Liar's collective ass clear back to Saigon. That they made any impression at all is entirely his fault.
Randi is a different situation. He is not running for high office and can afford to ignore the idiots. Further, he has a relativly high, public profile in a controversial field and thus virtually attracts them like he was an idiot magnet. Any rumor or inuendo from this thread is simply more water off the duck's back.
I'd suggest that you go back and re-read this thread carefully. I think you might find that it comes up to a pretty good, country defense of Randi.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 14:55:08 [Permalink]
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Ok, this is becoming tedious. Apologies to those not involved.
filthy:
I have re-read this topic, (I usually do that when I find that I am in disagreement with posters that I have learned to respect.) and I actually have changed my mind. (Which you might find if you re-read the post you replied to.)
Ricky:
A straw man is when you attack a weaker form of someones argument. You have claimed twice that I wanted a topic deleted because i disagreed with the argument.
My reason was the written insult, the libel (which you even included in the one line you quoted).
For your out of context quote.
If you claim that someone just wrote one line as an argument, when that person wrote several, this is a misquote, a false claim. Standing by your quote will in my opinion make you a liar.
You seem to be unable to see your mistakes (the strawmen and the misquotes that is, not disagreeing with me).
Maybe you could run for president.
Please show me that you know better than this, then feel free to agree or disagree with me as much as you like.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 15:00:11 [Permalink]
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And I too, apologise. I misunderstood the statment a bit.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2004 : 22:42:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
It is a fact.
JREF gave $ 5000 from donations to a young girl called "Moefox".
You haven't given anything for us to confirm this as 'fact'. As long as you don't, it is rumor at best.
Actually, the important point to make here is not that latinjral has no evidence that the JREF gave five grand to "Moefox," but rather that the JREF is free to give $5,000 scholarships to whomever they please.
Obviously, if the JREF started handing over scholarships to the likes of Uri Geller, Sylvia Brown, or anyone who claimed to be able to dowse, their donations (and thus their ability to give scholarships) would dry up rather quickly. There is no evidence that "Moefox" pursues goals antithetical to the JREF's mission. The fact that they gave her a scholarship suggests the opposite. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 18:06:09 [Permalink]
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Sorry Dave,,,,,but the ex-administrator of JREF forum confirmed it.
It is a "money wash" of donations...a triangle. |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
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Topic Locked
