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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  12:44:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
I did some work with a Raptor group (rehibilitates injured raptors). I had the opportunity to hold a barn owl, a short eared owl, a barred owl and a great horned owl. That darn great horned owl was one the most intimidating birds I could have ever imagined. I too had welding gloves on but there was no mistaking the strength in those feet. It would swivels it's head and look at me and then sqeeze my hand and arm with his feet. It felt like my hand was in a vice - very cool.

By the way great horned owls are particularly fond of eating skunks. I have heard of a camera that was set up on a great horned owls favorite perch to record it eating habits and a large percentage of it's diet was found to be skunks. On the last night of the study the owl brough a poodle back to the perch to eat.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  13:16:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Wonderful experience, isn't it? All but a a few of the raptors I come by go to a group better equiped and more qualified than I to deal with them. But some few I can't resist, like the charming, little screech and once, a black vulture. When I released them, it was a sad day.

It is amazing how many small mice a screech owl can put away!

Barn owls are often active during the day, especally when they are feeding a large, as many as seven, brood. But as hard as they work, only one to three chicks ever survive. As well as the elder chicks monopolizing the food, a certain factor is cannablism, the largest devouring the smallest.

When I lived in VT, I had the rare good fortune to see a snowy owl that had strayed far south, as happens occasionaly. Of course, I had no camera at the time.

Damn, but I like owls!

Now verlch, don't you wish you'd titled your OP something else?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  13:44:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
You should be hung for treason for just thinking the word Owl! Right V.

Team Misinformed to the rescue!

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  13:58:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=address&address=1309+5th+St+NE&city=Washington&state=dc&zipcode=20002&search=++Search++


I did a map quest...

If you click over to capital hill you can see the 'owl'!!!

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
Edited by - verlch on 12/02/2004 14:09:56
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  15:31:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=address&address=1309+5th+St+NE&city=Washington&state=dc&zipcode=20002&search=++Search++


I did a map quest...

If you click over to capital hill you can see the 'owl'!!!



Sorry, I don't see it. I see the image of a jester complete with dingle ball hat, does that mean the government is run by clowns and buffoons? (Well, yes, but not because of the image)

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  18:44:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
verlch wrote:
quote:
I did a map quest...

If you click over to capital hill you can see the 'owl'!!!
Actually, the first thing I saw was...


Him name is Hopkin...

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  19:52:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
The worship an owl named Molech of whom the (wonderful and godly and very moral people) used to sacrifice their first born to this caninite demon they all used to worship and in our country we still worship today....


Hi, verlch. I want to take a step back a moment and address something I have been meaning to bring up: where does the association of the owl with the Canaanite god Molech come from? Let me rephrase that. Besides a few fringe conspriacy websites, what evidence do you have to show that Molech was ever thought of as an owl?

I only ask because in my own brief research on the topic, I can find no such association. For instance, while my reference book Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (or DDD) says that though many aspect of Molech's cult is unclear, he appears to have been "a netherworld deity to whom children were offered by fire for some divine purpose," it makes no mention of an owl.

There certainly are owls in the Middle East (see, e.g., this link). In the ancient world, the Sumerians appear to have had two words for the bird: la-la-ri, and ninna2, with the Akkadian equivalents eshebu and qadu respectively. The dictionaries note that the owl is associated with bad omens-- not surprising for a nocturnal bird of prey-- but nothing about child sacrifice or Canaanite dieties.

The Hebrew is, as near as I can tell, cos. It only appears twice in the Bible (Lev 11:17 and Deut 14:16). In neither case do we find an association to the god Molech.

So: what proof is there that the owl had anything to do with a demon-god Molech in the ancient world?

I have a second question-- or a comment, really. In the past you've thrown out a host of links and assertions trying to link the modern world-- including the architecture and layout of Washington, DC-- to sun worship, which you (mistakenly) claim started in Babylon. Now, you say that it's based on the Molech, a pagan demon somewho connected to the owl. My question is, which is it? After awhile, your conspiracy upon conspiracy starts to look sooo convuluted that it's hard to see how even you can believe it all.
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 12/06/2004 09:03:23
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  20:07:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
The Owl has called my name several times. One day, I will answer him.

As will we all.

Verlch, you are pissing into the wind. Again.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  20:28:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=address&address=1309+5th+St+NE&city=Washington&state=dc&zipcode=20002&search=++Search++


I did a map quest...

If you click over to capital hill you can see the 'owl'!!!



Sorry, I don't see it. I see the image of a jester complete with dingle ball hat, does that mean the government is run by clowns and buffoons? (Well, yes, but not because of the image)




Scroll back two notches on the mapquest, then look over at the star. Find capital hill. Notice the owl. Look at the pentagram attached to the white house. Then there is some type of winged angel that sprouts out of the top of the capital area. The star is due north of the white house facing down, which means black magic.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  20:45:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

quote:
Originally posted by verlch
The worship an owl named Molech of whom the (wonderful and godly and very moral people) used to sacrifice their first born to this caninite demon they all used to worship and in our country we still worship today....


Hi, verlch. I want to take a step back a moment and address something I have been meaning to bring up: where does the association of the owl with the Canaanite god Molech come from? Let me rephrase that. Besides a few fringe conspriacy websites, what evidence do you have to show that Molech was ever thought of as an owl?

I only ask because in my own brief research on the topic, I can find no such association. For instance, while my reference book Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (or DDD) says that though many aspect of Molech's cult is unclear, he appears to have been "a netherworld deity to whom children were offered by fire for some divine purpose," it makes no mention of an owl.

There certainly are owls in the Middle East (see, e.g., this link). In the ancient world, the Sumerians appear to have had two words for the bird: la-la-ri, and ninna2, with the Akkadian equivalents eshebu and qadu respectively. The dictionaries note that the owl is associated with bad omens-- not surprising for a nocturnal bird of prey-- but nothing about child sacrifice or Canaanite dieties.

The Hebrew is, as near as I can tell, cos. It only appears twice in the Bible (Lev 11:17 and Deut 14:16). In neither case do we find an association to the god Molech.

So: what proof is there that the owl had anything to do with a demon-god Molech in the ancient world?

I have a second question-- or a comment, really. In the past you've thrown out a host of links and assertions trying to link the modern world-- including the architecture and layout of Washington, DC-- to sun worship, which you (mistakenly) claim started in Babylon. Now, you say that it's based on the Molech, a pagan demon somewho connected to the owl. My question is, which is it? After awhile, your conspiracy upon conspiracy starts to look sooo convuluted that it's hard to see how even you can believe it all.



http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_molech.htm

molech in the bible. They worshiped baal in Babylon. I wouldn't put worship past anything in the old Babylon.

http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_baal.htm


God didn't like His people worshipping anything other than Him!

http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_babylon.htm

The history of Babylon in the bible....

http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_moloch.htm

Proof that Moloch was around in the time of Babylon!

Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Anybody that gives their seed to Molech will be put to death. So they used to sacrifice children to a demon!

http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/moloch.asp

He was a demon.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa102197a.htm

This shows the gods that the Living God of Israel hated and didn't want His people anywhere around! Israels God is the God of the Living!


http://www.bartleby.com/65/mo/Molech.html

http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_baalim.htm

The bible talks about making grooves for baalim. The Boheimean Grove that the owl is worshiped in Notheren California is a Grove...

For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.hoddy/eric/bgrove.html

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/geronimo.html

The history of the bushs.

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/spiders.html

First hand account of the show of force by police at the Grove.

http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/freemasonry/

Freemasons claim that their group dates back to the stonemason guilds of the Middle Ages, some even say it reaches back to the building of King Solomon's Temple in 850 B.C. No one really believes that. It was actually founded in 1717 by a bunch of affluent Englishmen with too much time on their hands. The organization flourished and spread rapidly throughout the British empire; Masonic lodges appeared in the American colonies as early as the 1730s. A separate strain later popped up in France and swept across Europe.

You would have to follow the history back, Knights of Templar to the King Solomon and the building of the temple.


http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/aleister-crowley/

Mr. Crowley an evil, evil man that fits well in the conspiracy.

Well it is clear that Molech was alive back then, I suppose the next best thing would be to speak to somebody alive and that was at the grove and involved in the 'craft'.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
Edited by - verlch on 12/02/2004 21:55:35
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  20:57:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Black magic???

Pu-leese!

So now we have witchcraft in the government?

I will agree that the current adminstration is the epitomy of evil, but not even the Bush shithead is capable of supernatural actions.

Which brings up the point that neither you nor anyone else has proven the existance of any magic beyond prestidigitation -- my, that's a long word and I'm not sure I've spelled it right.

Houdini weeps.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  21:19:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_molech.htm
http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_baal.htm
http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_babylon.htm
http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_moloch.htm
http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/moloch.asp
http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa102197a.htm
http://www.bartleby.com/65/mo/Molech.html
The word 'owl' does not appear on any of the above web pages.

Moloch appears to be shown as a man with the head of a calf. How do owls fit in with this?

Edited to add (due to verlch's edit):
quote:
http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_baalim.htm
http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/geronimo.html
http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/spiders.html
http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/freemasonry/
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/aleister-crowley/
No 'owl' in the above sites, either.
quote:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.hoddy/eric/bgrove.html
The above site equates the Bohemian Grove owl with the goddess Minerva, not with Moloch. It also says the whole thing has only been happening for 121 years, so it's a little young to be involved with the people who actually designed Washington, DC, which the legislators first occupied in 1800.

And then finally, verlch wrote:
quote:
Well it is clear that Molech was alive back then...
Only if you take the Bible literally. Most of the world does not.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  23:29:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
http://www.terraserver.com/imagery/image_gx.asp?cpx=-77.0209956073715&cpy=38.89005935316583&res=8&provider_id=305&t=pan


There is an actual look at capital hill and the capital is the top of the pyramid making it the capstone. The white house or president is represented as the mouth of the beast. Notice the black magic.


http://www.terraserver.com/imagery/image_gx.asp?cpx=-77.05481642580575&cpy=38.866608498801405&res=8&provider_id=305&t=pan

There is the Pentagon....


Kah says that The Illuminati were condemned by George Washington in 1798. Our first president was a Mason, but he was a godly man. He was a surveyor, and would naturally belong to Masonic trades. But there is no evidence that he personally was involved in any of the unfortunate secret aspects of the founding of our nation and its capital, such as the city of Washington D.C. being laid out in the form of a pentagram. He wrote, "I have heard much of the nefarious and dangerous plan and doctrines of the Illuminati. It was not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States." (From The Writings of George Washington, V. 20: Washington D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1941).


If only GW knew what was going on now!!!

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
Edited by - verlch on 12/03/2004 01:26:14
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  05:24:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Just an addendum, Minerve was the roman goddess associated with wisdom, industry and war.

Verlch, any PENTAGON can be turned into a PENTAGRAM. It's not design. It's math.


(oh my, I'm afraid I've just fed V with more insanity)

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  05:58:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
If only GW knew what was going on now!!!


Indeed!


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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