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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  06:28:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Is it just me?

I get the feeling that we are witnessing Verlich advancing from confusion to delusion and finally to clinical psychosis. It looks to me like Verlich is really developing a mental illness.

I am really starting to feel sorry for him.



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  07:05:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
It's not just you; I have wondered for some time.

I've also wondered if he's not stringing us along and having a good laugh at out expense. He pushs just the right buttons so very well.

Of the two, I hope it's the latter.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  07:29:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
I dont, I hope hes bonkers and they put him in a nuthouse where he belongs.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  07:31:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
Hey velrch. Thanks for completely dodging the question. If you were new here, I'd chalk it up to a simple misunderstanding of the question. But since you've been here for awhile, I know better.

Let's summarize what I conceded in my last post:
a) Molech was a Canaanite deity
b) Molech was a deity associated with child sacrifice

Here's what I cannot concede (though I didn't address this in my last post; I'll do so below):
c) Molech was worshipped in Babylon

Here's what I asked you to prove, and you have thus far failed:
d) Molech as anything to do with owls

Now, let's look at some of your links:

quote:
Originally posted by verlch
http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_molech.htm

molech in the bible. They worshiped baal in Babylon. I wouldn't put worship past anything in the old Babylon.


Yes, verlch, Molech was a deity in Canaan. Your reference to Ba'al in Babylon is incorrect-- though understandable. In Cannan, there was a storm-god Ba'al (also a West Semitic word meaning "lord"). The Bible generally rails against anyone who worships him (for obvious reasons). In Babylon, their city-god was Marduk. In later periods (after Babylon had established hegemony in the region in the middle of the second millennium), he was also called Bel (the East Semitic word for "lord"-- obviously a cognate). An analogy might be Yahweh being called things like God or Lord.

However, the Ba'al in the Bible was not the Bel, or Marduk, of Babylon. Proof of this is in the Bible itself (uh-oh!) in 2 Kings 25:27, where there's a Babylonian king named (one of my favorite Bible names!) Evil-Merodach. This is a corruption of a good (and common) Babylonian name Awil-Marduk, "man of Marduk." Thus, in the first millennium, Marduk was Marduk and Ba'al was Ba'al.

quote:
http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_moloch.htm

Proof that Moloch was around in the time of Babylon!


Well, no one doubts this, verlch. But was he worshipped in Babylon? The Bible verse gives no hint. Indeed, I can find no reference to that god in any Babylonian material. One might posit that his cult was practiced during the exile, but even so it likely would have been for a short time, and only by a small number; it never became common.

quote:
The bible talks about making grooves for baalim. The Boheimean Grove that the owl is worshiped in Notheren California is a Grove...


Neat. From Webster's-- "Grove: a small wood or stand of trees lacking dense undergrowth." This evil "grove" you speak of must be the only one if its kind in California!

quote:
http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/freemasonry/

Freemasons claim that their group dates back to the stonemason guilds of the Middle Ages, some even say it reaches back to the building of King Solomon's Temple in 850 B.C. No one really believes that. It was actually founded in 1717 by a bunch of affluent Englishmen with too much time on their hands. The organization flourished and spread rapidly throughout the British empire; Masonic lodges appeared in the American colonies as early as the 1730s. A separate strain later popped up in France and swept across Europe.


Uh, why quote something that contraditcs (mocks, even) your own assertions?!?

But I digress: verlch unless you can provide some source that clearly shows that Molech was associated with owls, I'll have to assume that you're either a) crazy (well, crazier than I already think you are), or b) a big, fat, liar.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  08:24:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

quote:
Originally posted by verlch



I did a map quest...

If you click over to capital hill you can see the 'owl'!!!



Sorry, I don't see it. I see the image of a jester complete with dingle ball hat, does that mean the government is run by clowns and buffoons? (Well, yes, but not because of the image)




Scroll back two notches on the mapquest, then look over at the star. Find capital hill. Notice the owl. Look at the pentagram attached to the white house. Then there is some type of winged angel that sprouts out of the top of the capital area. The star is due north of the white house facing down, which means black magic.



Sorry, the owl doesn't appear. Taking all the roads in their entirety, it's a jester with dingle ball hat.

The pentagram facing down as being a sign of black magic is a modern co-opting of the sign. It actually is a animal realm pentagram. Usually inscribed with the horned God's head (Pan). The other style, point up, is a common symbol for the Neo-Pagan religions and stands for the spirit realm.

Of course, since the human mind is wired to recognize patterns, your "finding" of these hidden "symbols" is complete crap. The reason that the streets of DC look so wierd and have funny angles to them is because they were built during the early 1800's when the horse was the most common mode of conveyance. Boston suffers from the same transporational quirks. I'm sure that you could find the same whacked out symbology in Boston, too.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 12/03/2004 08:36:49
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  08:34:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch



http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/aleister-crowley/

Mr. Crowley an evil, evil man that fits well in the conspiracy.

Well it is clear that Molech was alive back then, I suppose the next best thing would be to speak to somebody alive and that was at the grove and involved in the 'craft'.



Alistair Crowley founded the OTO with the help of the Golden Dawn movement. He laid the ground work for modern day Neo-Paganism. Gerald Gardener joined OTO and Crowley had started down his path of self destruction and mysongistic behavior which would get him bounced out of the religion he helped found. His works were largely purged by Gardener and Vivianne Crowley.

Alistair Crowley declined into excess, his participation in the founding of Wicca was during a time where his behavior was much better. He was also not alone in the founding of Wicca.

Your ignorance on this subject is truely appalling. Instead of relying on rotten.com, why not actually research the man's works? He wrote extensively on the Quaballah and Neo-paganism.

You'll have to excuse this 15 year adherent to the Garnerian Eclectic tradition of Wicca when you repeat outright falsehoods.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2004 :  23:30:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
That so many men, at so many separate points, should have acted in perfect concert in such business as they were engaged in, would scarcely be believed, without compelling the inference of some distinct understanding existing between them. That they should have carried into effect the most difficult part of their undertaking, a scheme of the most daring and criminal nature, in the midst of a large, intelligent and active population, without thereby incurring the risk of a full conviction of their guilt and the consequent punishment, would be equally incredible, but for the light furnished by the phraseology of the Masonic oath.

Upon the first hasty and superficial glance, a feeling might arise of surprise that the frivolity of its unmeaning ceremonial, and ridiculous substitution of its fictions for the sacred history, should not long ago discredited the thing in the minds of good and sensible men everywhere. Yet upon closer and more attentive examination, this first feeling vanishes, and makes way for astonishment at the ingenious contrivance displayed in the construction of the whole machine. A more perfect agent for the devising and execution of conspiracies against the church or state could scarcely have been conceived.

President John Quincy Adams
Letters on the Masonic Institution, 1847.


A letter from the President...

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  00:51:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

That so many men, at so many separate points, should have acted in perfect concert in such business as they were engaged in, would scarcely be believed, without compelling the inference of some distinct understanding existing between them. That they should have carried into effect the most difficult part of their undertaking, a scheme of the most daring and criminal nature, in the midst of a large, intelligent and active population, without thereby incurring the risk of a full conviction of their guilt and the consequent punishment, would be equally incredible, but for the light furnished by the phraseology of the Masonic oath.

Upon the first hasty and superficial glance, a feeling might arise of surprise that the frivolity of its unmeaning ceremonial, and ridiculous substitution of its fictions for the sacred history, should not long ago discredited the thing in the minds of good and sensible men everywhere. Yet upon closer and more attentive examination, this first feeling vanishes, and makes way for astonishment at the ingenious contrivance displayed in the construction of the whole machine. A more perfect agent for the devising and execution of conspiracies against the church or state could scarcely have been conceived.

President John Quincy Adams
Letters on the Masonic Institution, 1847.


A letter from the President...

Adams was a noted Mason-hater probably due in part to the murder of an ex-Mason who was revealing the Lodge's secrets.

I don't see how isolated incidences such as that one prove anything beyond Nasons being no more nor less than human.

quote:
Masons (Freemasonry)
Christian or Anti-Christian?*
Freemasonry refers to the principles, institutions, and practices of the fraternal order of the Free and Accepted Masons. The largest worldwide society, Freemasonry is an organization of men based on the "fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man," using builders' tools as symbols to teach basic moral truths generally accepted by persons of good will. Their motto is "morality in which all men agree, that is, to be good men and true." It is religious in that a belief in a Supreme Being and in the immortality of the soul are the two prime requirements for membership, but it is nonsectarian in that no religious test is used.1 The purpose of Freemasonry is to enable men to meet in harmony, to promote friendship, and to be charitable. Its basic ideals are that all persons are the children of one God, that all persons are related to each other, and that the best way to worship God is to be of service to people.

Masons have no national headquarters as such, but the largest regional is the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction (35 Southern states), which is headquartered in Alexandria, Virginia. U.S. membership is claimed at about 3.5 million, with about five million worldwide. The basic unit of Freemasonry is the lodge, which exists under a charter issued by a grand lodge exercising administrative powers. The lodges are linked together informally by a system of mutual recognition between lodges that meet the Masonic requirements. The lodge confers three degrees: Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason. Additional degrees are conferred by two groups of advanced Freemasonry: the York Rite, which awards 12 degrees; and the Scottish Rite, which awards 30 higher degrees. In the United States and Canada, members have formed a large number of groups to enable them to expand their social and charitable activities. The best known of these groups is the Shriners (official name: "Ancient Arabic Order Nobles Mystic Shrine"), who hold festive parades and support hospitals for crippled and burned children. (To be a Shriner, one must be a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason, or its equivalent in the York Rite [Knights Templar]). [The 33rd degree is an honorary degree bestowed upon especially worthy masons who have accomplished outstanding work in such fields as religion and politics.]


http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/masons.htm

The article goes on to describe how most college fraternity ceremonies and principles are founded upon Masonic principles as are those of other fraternal organizations such as the Moose and Elks.

Yeah, I know; Skull and Bones produced the noxious Bush(s). Again, so what?

It is currently thought that there are some 3.5 million Masons in the US and perhaps 5 million world wide, the vast majority honest members of their communities. So, I must ask again; where is the world wide conspiricy?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 12/04/2004 01:13:23
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  12:21:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
Well the groups are there. Its up to you to decide if they are a threat to you or not. Personally what I have read about them from countless sources, I don't like them or trust them. This is after 10 years on reading books and doing research on the web. I've spoken to Masons, they were freinds for awhile with me. They even spoke of the Illuminati as running the world, the ones above the 9th level of the 13. They seem harmless enough, they are full of mystical knowledge, new age chants, and old pagan rituals. So me as a Christian try and stay away from Black magic and fellowship with demons. They are here to pave the way for the AntiChrist, the number of a man 666. There must be a worldwide tax code, woldwide government, world court, world religion and then the man of sin will be revealed. The whole world will wander after him. Signs of the times, the bible is full of them. You can see the good and evil in this world. I've just pointed out the evil.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  12:38:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
You can see the good and evil in this world. I've just pointed out the evil.


But you apparently can't see reality when it hits you in the face. You also either can't or won't see when someone has legitimate questions regarding the vailidty of your claims of conspiracy. I ask again: what proof is there that Molech is associated with an owl?

If you cannot prove this, then all your references to owls being designed into the layout of Washington DC are bogus, and your claims about the world-wide Masonic plot to take over the world look all the more insane.

But here's my guess: you will go ahead and pretend like I haven't even called into question your assertions, or, even better, you'll link a dozen or so fringe websites and claim that somewhere one of them will actually prove that Molech was an owl. Then, after a careful reading shows that no new information is added to the debate, you'll accuse me of being blind to what is apparently obvious.

And at this point, I ask myself why I even bother...
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  12:57:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Well the groups are there. Its up to you to decide if they are a threat to you or not. Personally what I have read about them from countless sources, I don't like them or trust them. This is after 10 years on reading books and doing research on the web. I've spoken to Masons, they were freinds for awhile with me. They even spoke of the Illuminati as running the world, the ones above the 9th level of the 13. They seem harmless enough, they are full of mystical knowledge, new age chants, and old pagan rituals. So me as a Christian try and stay away from Black magic and fellowship with demons. They are here to pave the way for the AntiChrist, the number of a man 666. There must be a worldwide tax code, woldwide government, world court, world religion and then the man of sin will be revealed. The whole world will wander after him. Signs of the times, the bible is full of them. You can see the good and evil in this world. I've just pointed out the evil.

I can understand, up to a point at least. The mythic symbols used by another group have always been veiwed by 'outsiders' as all sorts of evil, even though they are entirely nonsense, the Mason's included. I don't doubt that this fear and loathing goes back well before Biblical times, probably to the days when symbols were first used. I don't know, but I'd not be suprised if you viewed the elaborate, Catholic ceremonies in something of the same light.

At least in part, it's human nature. We have always been suspitious of others. Thus, what I consider tripe, is taken seriously by others others such as yourself, whatever evidence there might be, pro or con.

Verlch, I rather doubt there will ever be a one-world government. We are too tribaly indoctrinated and far too contentious. But I wonder; what if there was? All of the horrid prophetcy aside, of course. Would that really be so dreadful?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 12/04/2004 13:26:17
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  21:18:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

quote:
Originally posted by verlch
You can see the good and evil in this world. I've just pointed out the evil.


But you apparently can't see reality when it hits you in the face. You also either can't or won't see when someone has legitimate questions regarding the vailidty of your claims of conspiracy. I ask again: what proof is there that Molech is associated with an owl?

If you cannot prove this, then all your references to owls being designed into the layout of Washington DC are bogus, and your claims about the world-wide Masonic plot to take over the world look all the more insane.

But here's my guess: you will go ahead and pretend like I haven't even called into question your assertions, or, even better, you'll link a dozen or so fringe websites and claim that somewhere one of them will actually prove that Molech was an owl. Then, after a careful reading shows that no new information is added to the debate, you'll accuse me of being blind to what is apparently obvious.

And at this point, I ask myself why I even bother...



Perhaps asking a memeber of the grove what it represents is the next step. Several people have pointed it out that the owl represents Moloch and Molech.

These ideas are taken from masons that are in the Bohemian Grove and understand what it is. The bible says that those that worshipped Molech sacrificed their children to him to promote good in the land they lived. The bible says Molech was a demon.

Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. 1 Kings 11:7

There is the King Solomon connection. Even the star of David is said to arise out of pagon kings. Basically being two triangles placed together.

We have always had bishops and priests in our lodges. If to place man upon the altar in place of God is the sin of Lucifer, then all humanists since the Renaissance have committed this sin.

Illustrious Jacques Mitterand
Grand Master of the Grand Orient of France
Brother of the future President of France
Radio Interview, 1969
quote:



Hiram Abiff is said to be the member of the craft that built King Solomons temple.

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/hiram.htm

That website tells you how deep the craft goes back to King Solomon. That's why the craft comes out of Egypt and you see the pyramid.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  21:26:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Well the groups are there. Its up to you to decide if they are a threat to you or not. Personally what I have read about them from countless sources, I don't like them or trust them. This is after 10 years on reading books and doing research on the web. I've spoken to Masons, they were freinds for awhile with me. They even spoke of the Illuminati as running the world, the ones above the 9th level of the 13. They seem harmless enough, they are full of mystical knowledge, new age chants, and old pagan rituals. So me as a Christian try and stay away from Black magic and fellowship with demons. They are here to pave the way for the AntiChrist, the number of a man 666. There must be a worldwide tax code, woldwide government, world court, world religion and then the man of sin will be revealed. The whole world will wander after him. Signs of the times, the bible is full of them. You can see the good and evil in this world. I've just pointed out the evil.
This is a very interesting post, verlch.

To me, as an atheist, people who "are full of mystical knowledge, new age chants, and old pagan rituals" are pretty much just as "dangerous" to me as people who profess to believe that the Bible contains a precise description of the Creation. You may see one as "evil" and one as "good," but I see both as performing rituals which have no rational basis.

You see, Christianity could be considered a 2,000-year-old conspiracy for world domination. The central message from proselytizers is "think like us or burn for eternity." The group send out "missionaries" to bring more people into the organization. And with two billion adherents, it's larger than Freemasonry by a factor of 400, not including those Freemasons who call themselves Christians.

So what makes Christianity different from Freemasonry, in your opinion, verlch? How is the group that you defend qualitatively different from the group which you're afraid of? Why should I - a person on the sidelines - be more worried about a group 1/400th the size of your group? Why do you think that your group is not intent on the takeover of the US government?

After all, how else do you explain the symbol of Christianity placed all around the Capitol Building and elsewhere in Washington, DC:


How else do you explain the fact that there are about 512 churches in the Nation's Capitol? 512 is 29. Adding nine twos together gives us 18, and adding one and eight gives us 9, or the square of the Trinity of Christianity.

How else do you explain "God bless America?" How else do you explain the Congressional prayers? How else do you explain the way the Supreme Court is opened each day? These certainly aren't pagan rituals. You see, verlch, you're simply mistaken about the pentagram near the White House. It's not a Satanic symbol - it represents the Star of Bethlehem.

Christians are simply pointing out the Freemason symbology in order to hide the true objective of their movement: one world government, one world language, and the invocation of the anti-christ. The Bible shows the signs of the coming apocalypse, and Christians are dutifully and ignorantly making them come to pass.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  21:52:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Perhaps asking a memeber of the grove what it represents is the next step. Several people have pointed it out that the owl represents Moloch and Molech.


What an unsatisfying answer. Yes, I'll just book a flight out to California and find the special Masonic Grove and ask them about how an owl relates to their demon worship. Thanks, verlch. Nice dodge.

quote:
These ideas are taken from masons that are in the Bohemian Grove and understand what it is. The bible says that those that worshipped Molech sacrificed their children to him to promote good in the land they lived. The bible says Molech was a demon.


Right. But then, the Bible isn't likely to portray too many Canaanite deities as gods, is it...

quote:
Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. 1 Kings 11:7

There is the King Solomon connection. Even the star of David is said to arise out of pagon kings. Basically being two triangles placed together.


Uh, did you read the Bible verse you jut quoted?!? The god mentioned isn't Molech, it's Chemosh!! They're two different Canaanite gods! Just like Yahweh was Israel's state god (and Marduk was Babylonia's, and Ashur was Assyria's, and Molcom was Ammon's, and Qos was Edom's, and so on), Chemosh was Moab's sate god. Again, Molech does not equal Chemosh.

We have always had bishops and priests in our lodges. If to place man upon the altar in place of God is the sin of Lucifer, then all humanists since the Renaissance have committed this sin.


quote:
Hiram Abiff is said to be the member of the craft that built King Solomons temple.

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/hiram.htm

That website tells you how deep the craft goes back to King Solomon. That's why the craft comes out of Egypt and you see the pyramid.



Can you see the disconnect in your writing? Solomon's temple was in-- get this-- Jerulalem, not Egypt. How the (totally apocryphal and entirely bogus-sounding) story of some ancient Hebrew mason leads you to Egypt and the pyramid is beyond me.

And by the way, to get the quote feature to work, put the [quote] before the thing you want quoted, and the [/quote] after the quote.
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1988 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  21:53:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message

As a long time (mostly) lurker here, I just need to step up and say what a great post, Dave!

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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