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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2004 : 19:16:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
So let me get this straight. You're saying that you know a lot about something you cannot define and don't understand?
Damn good catch, H. I missed that. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 19:19:33 [Permalink]
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I my Skeptic Friend believe the paranormal is normal. Just not fully discovered. If you want proof of Ghosts All I can say is to look at the evidence read the jouranl, sift through the websites make your decision. As for PSI and Telepathy all you have to do is read any Parapsychology Journal and the evidence is right there...
Have you checked this website out...
http://www.synchronizeduniverse.com/index.html
Trippin... |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 19:42:10 [Permalink]
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No I said I know alot about the Paranormal not necessarily the phenomenon . Your missing the point. I have much knowledge on the subject of the Paranormal Ghosts, UFO, Weeping Icons, Exorcisms, Telepathy, Remote Viewing, Etc. What the exact Science of How these things work I am not sure. But I am sure not going to fall into a rut when evidence stands before me.
For Days now we having been talking and discussing the possibilities of Ghosts, Ghostly phenomenon, Mental Telapthy, etc. Surely reading over all our combined posts we could come to the conclusion that :
The phenomenon of the Paranormal Exist
Ghost may not just be consciuos Souls of the dead
Occams Razor Occams Razor |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 19:48:18 [Permalink]
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In brief, Occham's Razor states that given the available evidence, the simplest explanation is likely to be correct.
You have yet to present any evidence whatsoever!
Therefore, Occham's Razor favors myth and ledgend.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 20:10:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Storm:
I have much knowledge on the subject of the Paranormal Ghosts, UFO, Weeping Icons, Exorcisms, Telepathy, Remote Viewing, Etc.
The whole ball of wax, eh? Weeping Icons? Oh well. I suppose someome has to keep us skeptics in buisness. Is there anything you do question criticly? Are you munching on homeopathics too? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 20:22:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Storm:
I have much knowledge on the subject of the Paranormal Ghosts, UFO, Weeping Icons, Exorcisms, Telepathy, Remote Viewing, Etc.
The whole ball of wax, eh? Weeping Icons? Oh well. I suppose someome has to keep us skeptics in buisness. Is there anything you do question criticly? Are you munching on homeopathics too?
And doubtless the image of the Virgin Mary in a very stale, gnawed-upon, grilled cheese sammich.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 20:24:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
No I said I know alot about the Paranormal not necessarily the phenomenon . Your missing the point. I have much knowledge on the subject of the Paranormal Ghosts, UFO, Weeping Icons, Exorcisms, Telepathy, Remote Viewing, Etc. What the exact Science of How these things work I am not sure. But I am sure not going to fall into a rut when evidence stands before me.
No, Storm. No evidence at all stands before you. You are looking at a mountain of claims. A vast sea of people claiming, proclaiming, and exclaiming all sorts of things. When I follow the links you post, all I see is more and more claims. Claims and baseless speculation.
A shred of evidence is what we have been waiting for.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/02/2004 20:26:03 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 20:41:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
No I said I know alot about the Paranormal not necessarily the phenomenon . Your missing the point. I have much knowledge on the subject of the Paranormal Ghosts, UFO, Weeping Icons, Exorcisms, Telepathy, Remote Viewing, Etc. What the exact Science of How these things work I am not sure. But I am sure not going to fall into a rut when evidence stands before me.
No, Storm. No evidence at all stands before you. You are looking at a mountain of claims. A vast sea of people claiming, proclaiming, and exclaiming all sorts of things. When I follow the links you post, all I see is more and more claims. Claims and baseless speculation.
A shred of evidence is what we have been waiting for.
Double H, at this point, I don't think we're gonna get any.
I am thinking that what we have here is yet another shouter who expects us to accept the whole cloth merely upon blather.
Storm, it's been interesting, but it's past time that you came up with something more solid than verbage, yours and the equally unsupported sites you've insisted we to look at.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 21:06:02 [Permalink]
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Storm wrote:quote:
I my Skeptic Friend believe the paranormal is normal. Just not fully discovered.
Again: what if there's nothing to discover except mundane and boring answers?quote:
If you want proof of Ghosts All I can say is to look at the evidence read the jouranl, sift through the websites make your decision.
Spoken like a True Believer. You can't point to any particular piece of evidence, and instead insist that I'll have to find that evidence on my own.quote:
As for PSI and Telepathy all you have to do is read any Parapsychology Journal and the evidence is right there...
And why is it not in psychology journals? Does it not stand up to peer-review by people who aren't pro-paranormal already?quote:
Have you checked this website out...
Sigh. I'll humor you this once...
The site claims that "the present scientific paradigm is broken," yet presents a variety of misunderstandings of science, to say the least. Look at this:- The so-called "Theory of Everything" does not predict and does not understand what [dark matter] is. Yeah, as Siberia already pointed out, there is no "Theory of Everything," yet. It's being worked on. Besides that, Newton's physics did not predict nor does it "understand" quantum mechanics. Yet we still use Newton's work, every day.
- Experiments by Saxl and Allais found that Foucault pendulums veer off in strange directions during solar eclipses. This is not true. They found that pendulums behave oddly during eclipses, but "veer off in strange directions" is simply a lie. Further research on the subject (which could not have happened if this effect broke the paradigm of science) has led to both 'yes' and 'no' results, and a massive undertaking was started in 1999, but doomed when the project leader quit his NASA job. None of this means that "THE LAW OF GRAVITY appears to be seriously broken." That's just another lie on the web site.
- On cold fusion, the site says Present day physics has no explanation for how it works, but it does work. Yet nobody has won a Nobel Prize for their work in demostrating the effect. The vast majority of the scientific community is in agreement that cold fusion does not occur (they should be disagreeing if it does).
- Charge clusters: I was unable to find any reliable information about these, as most of the web sites which mention them seem to be advocating zero-point energy and/or perpetual-motion machines. What the reliable sites seem to call a "charge cluster" is anyplace that there's an abundance of electrons, such as on half a capacitor. In other words, your computer couldn't work without "charge clusters," so it's hardly likely that they're breaking any sort of scientific paradigm.
- Quasars: The site doesn't give nearly enough information to investigate this claim, although they do seem to believe that quasars are not associated with galaxies (really far-away ones) anyway.
- Speed of Light: for evidence of faster-than-light effects, they offer tests based upon acupuncture, which would be in need of validation themselves. Offering evidence for a paradigm-breaking effect based upon an effect which is still largely scoffed at isn't much to go on.
Well, that's all of this I have time for tonight.
I think it's quite obvious that neither the author(s) of the book being advertised at that site, nor the author(s) of the site itself, have any idea what a "paradigm" is, much less any clue as to how science operates. It seems to be assumed that anything which is currently unexplained will "break" modern science. That is an incorrect assumption, since modern science is nothing more than a quest to explain that which is not yet explained. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 21:19:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Double H, at this point, I don't think we're gonna get any.
Of course not, but I would at least like Storm to come to an understanding on what constitutes evidence. Perhaps even that is unreasonable.
And good write-up, Dave. I always enjoy reading your thorough dissections. Much better than my pell-mell approach, but I thank you for the earlier compliment.
Edited to add: Dave addresses a misconception concerning Foucault's pendulum on the same night that I update my sig to include mention of it. A clear example of synchronicity at work! 
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/02/2004 21:27:56 |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 21:45:16 [Permalink]
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I just came from the Europeam Journal of Parapsychology reading numerous article on PSI It is Called a Compendium of the Evidence of PSI. Read it...
What if not Dave? What if it is not mundane and boring?
Yeah Yeah Yeah I know no proof no tickie right?
Her is another article to read in this same journal
Criticisms and Controversies in Parapsychology
Say What you want We all have a little True Believer in us...
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 21:50:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
And good write-up, Dave. I always enjoy reading your thorough dissections. Much better than my pell-mell approach, but I thank you for the earlier compliment.
Thanks, but your earlier comment was direct and to the point. My write-up was doing Storm's homework for her, something I shouldn't have had to do at all.quote:
Edited to add: Dave addresses a misconception concerning Foucault's pendulum on the same night that I update my sig to include mention of it. A clear example of synchronicity at work!
And all I can think of is that book would be right up verlch's alley.
The pendulum anomalies are interesting, but until they're definitively supported, largely meaningless. As far as I can tell, there's been only a single gavitometer confirmation of the Allias effect, and at a much lower level than the results Allias originally published in 1954. And if the effect does have something to do with changes in gravity, then it should show up in atomic clocks, but the latest and best-controlled study of them during an eclipse came up with just-barely-measurable deviations, and the authors were rather dismissive of them. While there are more confirming studies than disconfirming, that doesn't mean much until a reasonable theory is put together along with a mechanism of action. All of which, together, would probably explain the negative results some people have gotten, if correct.
Time will tell. With any luck, undergrads and grad students will continue to do eclipse experiments until the thing gets explained one way or the other. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 21:56:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
What if not Dave? What if it is not mundane and boring?
Then I'll be excited, too. But you've completely failed to answer my questions. You've failed to address the points I made about the web site you offered.
As far as I can tell, you're not willing to put the same amount of effort into this discussion as you expect everyone else to. You say "read this, read that," but won't answer simple direct questions.
Such behaviour is pretty damn rude, if nothing else. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 22:12:20 [Permalink]
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Rude is one thing I have never been on this site. I am not a rude person.
How could you read an determine an article in 5 minutes?
That does not say much to your credability...
The simpliest answer is not always the truth...
I have put a lot of effort into this subject...
I was not like someone who claimed they did not care about Spiritualism nor dis they care to research it...
Now how serious and uneducated is that...
Not from me...
So to say I was pretty damn rude is unfortunate...
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Storm |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 22:40:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Rude is one thing I have never been on this site. I am not a rude person.
Yes, you are. Aside from the facts I mentioned in my prior post about your rudeness, I will demonstrate just how rude this latest post of yours is:quote:
How could you read an determine an article in 5 minutes?
I never said one word about any "article" you mentioned.quote:
That does not say much to your credability...
Assuming that I only spent five minutes reading an article when I never said anything about it, and then claiming that such a short perusal damages my credibility is nothing but character assassination, which is rude.quote:
The simpliest answer is not always the truth...
I never said it was. Assuming that I think it that way is a personal attack, which is rude.quote:
I have put a lot of effort into this subject...
Which implies that I have not. You have no idea how much effort I may have put into this, except for the fact that I told you that I'd spent 20 years on similar searches. To ignore that is rude.quote:
I was not like someone who claimed they did not care about Spiritualism nor dis they care to research it...
Who said that? To make anonymous character assassinations is even more rude.quote:
Now how serious and uneducated is that...
That's a pretty serious accusation. To not provide any evidence to support your assertion is rude.quote:
Not from me...
Yes, from you.quote:
So to say I was pretty damn rude is unfortunate...
You're right, it is unfortunate that you cannot critically examine your own behaviour, and see just how rude it is. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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