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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/06/2004 : 18:55:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
so let me get this straight when you die all energy dies nothing gets dispersed? I read in someone elses post that energy does come out but it just dissapiates whether into the atmosphere, universe, ect. so which is it. and it isin this energy that is released maybe where we find the phenomenon.
Show me the info reguarding the falacy of the scales?
As was mentioned in another post, energy does not have weight. Therefore, scales designed to measure weight are useless and prove nothing.
Did you open the links and read the contents?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 19:14:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Show me the info reguarding the falacy of the scales?
Taken from snopes.com.
"MacDougall's [the scientist who weighed dying bodies] results were flawed because the methodology used to harvest them was suspect, the sample size far too small, and the ability to measure changes in weight imprecise. For this reason, credence should not be given to the idea his experiments proved something, let alone that they measured the weight of the soul as 21 grams. His postulations on this topic are a curiousity, but nothing more."
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/06/2004 20:08:36 |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 19:55:19 [Permalink]
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Very interesting but I still believe there is somthing more to th ephenomenon. I must sighn off H. Have to work the next two days at my real job. Pet Grief Counseling. Boo Hoo. I really mean that. Sometimes I come emotionally exhausted. But it is what I love to do. What I have been trained to do. It used to be with humans and humans now it is humans and animals. Talk to you alii in two days. Let see what Woo WOo topic I can come up with next |
Storm |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 20:10:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Very interesting but I still believe there is somthing more to the phenomenon.
Of course you do. What use are facts when you are intent on believing regardless of them?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 21:44:06 [Permalink]
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Storm wrote:quote:
Very interesting but I still believe there is somthing more to th ephenomenon.
Right now, the phenomenon appears to be nothing more than that a lot of people believe that souls weigh 21 grams. In other words, until there's solid evidence that there's a weight change at the moment of death, the only phenomenon is that of people's willingness to take sloppy science as fact.
Mind you, there is quite a lot to that particular phenomenon, but that's a whole 'nother subject. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 09:24:39 [Permalink]
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If your soul weighs 21 grams then it is not spirit. It is something that is a physical substance and it is governed by the laws of physics. How else could it have a weight?
Therefore the soul is subjected to entropy. So the soul eventually dies...
For the soul to move it must expend energy, in other words there must be some force to accelerate the mass of the soul. Where does the energy come from - are souls solar powered or do they eat soul food (sorry).
I am not sure what force is binding that soul together, magnetic? Nuclear?, but regardless it will be affected by physics. Magnetic fields could tear apart the soul. For sure your soul would be adversly affected by radiation.
I guess that there are no microwave ovens in heaven or they have the familiar 'micro wave in use' signs.
These people should just stick with the good old standby that the soul is spirit and no longer of this world. When they try to use science to prove there beliefs they just end up looking like idiots.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 15:23:10 [Permalink]
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| Some of you say that the is no more energy when you die that the body stops producing it. Some say that the energy within the body upon death dissapates slowly. Fast slow I don't care just tell me if there is indeed energy that is left. That dissapates? |
Storm |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 15:43:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Some of you say that the is no more energy when you die that the body stops producing it. Some say that the energy within the body upon death dissapates slowly. Fast slow I don't care just tell me if there is indeed energy that is left. That dissapates?
Like yesterday's porkchop, dead is dead, period. Whatever enegry the corpse once absorbed, contained, and gave off has dissapated with the lowering of body temperture. All electrical functions in the brain and nervous system have ceased. The body will no longer consume nor defecate. Leave it out in the sun, and it will gain a little energy as it warms up, but then it would become an embarrassment at best, and a health hazard at worst.
There is exactly zero evidence of anything beyond this, verlch et al to the contrary.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 15:53:19 [Permalink]
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| Thank you Filthy!!! Thank You !!! So there is energy, health hazard or not, energy does get dispersed. Maybe it is here Gentlemen that the phenomenon of what is called Ghosts Exists. I did not mean to leave the ladies out either. |
Storm |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 15:59:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Some of you say that the is no more energy when you die that the body stops producing it. Some say that the energy within the body upon death dissapates slowly. Fast slow I don't care just tell me if there is indeed energy that is left. That dissapates?
From your questions, I'm still not sure you understand what energy is.
Energy is locked up in your body in the form of chemical bonds. Your body breaks apart certain bonds when digesting a meal, say. It uses this energy to perform work, like keeping your body temperature up, growing muscles, producing the electricty to pump your heart, etc. Any energy it doesn't need can be stored as fat cells to be consumed later, or simply excreted and wasted.
Now, when you die, you're body no longer uses any of this stored energy, since you're dead. All of your bodily processes have ceased. However, other living things will continue to act upon your corpse, releasing stored energy. The bacteria inside your intestines will continue to thrive for awhile, bloating your cadaver with their expelled waste gasses. Blowflies may deposit their young inside you, which will in turn feed off the stored energy of your corpse. Worms, birds, or just about any other kind of carrion eater who gets a crack at you willl attempt to turn some of the energy stored in your body as matter (or really, stored as your body) back into energy.
"Your" energy is a misnomer. All the energy you've accumulated over a lifetime came from the environment, and it all goes back into the environment eventually. The actual paths it could take are many and varied.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/07/2004 16:03:09 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 16:06:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Thank you Filthy!!! Thank You !!! So there is energy, health hazard or not, energy does get dispersed. Maybe it is here Gentlemen that the phenomenon of what is called Ghosts Exists. I did not mean to leave the ladies out either.
What? Explain the "here." Because as it stands, it appears as if you are suggesting the phenomena of ghosts can be explained by sunlight, which Filthy suggested could warm a corpse.
You also need to elaborate how body heat or any other type of energy could conceivably be responsible for ghostly apparitions.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/07/2004 16:31:11 |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 16:09:46 [Permalink]
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I think I know what energy is. Although I am open to ,ore info. Like tellme more about the decomposition other than worms or insects. Maybe the expelled waste gas has an energy that can lead to the phenomenon when put into the atmosphere. When the brain dies does it's energy dissapate to or just cease to exist? Does anything cease to exist? If we go back into the environment than we are a part in it's existence hence the ceasing of ours? Maybe it is through this transference that we find ghostly phenomenon. the death of the old birth of the new?  |
Storm |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 16:23:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I think I know what energy is. Although I am open to ,ore info. Like tellme more about the decomposition other than worms or insects. Maybe the expelled waste gas has an energy that can lead to the phenomenon when put into the atmosphere.
Well, sure, in some cases. I've no doubt many ghosts stories can be attributed to someone misapprehending swamp gas.
quote:
When the brain dies does it's energy dissapate to or just cease to exist? Does anything cease to exist? If we go back into the environment than we are a part in it's existence hence the ceasing of ours?
Energy and matter can never cease to exist. Matter and energy are neither created nor destroyed, merely converted into one another. However, things can cease to exist. A tree which has been reduced to ash in a fire is no longer a tree. The matter and energy that were once contained in that tree are still around, however.
Some people consider that a type of immortality. The "circle of life" or what have you. Walt Whitman in Leaves of Grass wrote:
"I bequeath myself to the dirt to grow from the grass I love, If you want me again look for me under your boot soles."
It still wouldn't explain ghosts, though. As you said, the individual ceases to exist in any form other than base energy and matter, which we are awash in all the time anyway.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/07/2004 17:01:05 |
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