Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Conspiracy Theories
 What is a Ghost?
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 7

astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2004 :  11:22:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message
What Chaloobi said. I have never seen or heard a ghost nor do I even know anyone who has.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
Go to Top of Page

Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2004 :  12:31:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

So what is a Ghost Guys?
Share your stories....

Here's my story. I am the youngest child in my family, and the only girl. My brothers took great delight in scaring the bejeepers out of me in a wide variety of ways when I was little. They made creepy noises, hid under my bed, moved my stuff around, slammed the basement door when I was down there - you name it, they did it at least once.

Then, I grew up and they stopped because I was on to them, and it just wasn't as much fun anymore.

Storm, has it ever occurred to you that everyone who knows you discovered how gullible you are within the first fifteen minutes, and they're all just having you on?

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
Go to Top of Page

Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2004 :  12:58:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Though, I did have my dog running from room to room and barking for no reason...

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  00:40:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Here's my story. I am the youngest child in my family, and the only girl. My brothers took great delight in scaring the bejeepers out of me in a wide variety of ways when I was little. They made creepy noises, hid under my bed, moved my stuff around, slammed the basement door when I was down there - you name it, they did it at least once.


I was sitting at a table with an empty chair directly across from me. My brother, who was 5 at the time, sat a few chairs to my right. I grabbed the chair with my foot, and started to move it back and forth. I told my brother it was a ghost. Sure enough, he believed me.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  02:40:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Ghost- Figment of overactive imaginations.

Storm.... I don't think you realize how much you offend some people. You come here and make a claim, then suggest we go do some research? pffffft!

See... I knew you wouldn't even click any of those nice critical thinking links I provided for you in another thread. That makes me a psychic! Damn, I should start a webpage and charge people for the use of my ability to predict the future.

There can be no discussion until we agree on definitions.

As you're the initiator of the topis, it's up to YOU to provide YOUR definition of ghosts, and THEN invite debate.

Me, I'll just sit back here and tell you that you are a nutjob and dismiss your claims as unevidenced nonsense until you can provide evidence that "ghosts" exist.

So. Are we clear? You have TWO tasks.

1. Define "ghost".
2. Provide us with evidence to support your claim that ghosts exist.

So, get crackin!


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  06:47:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
One thing I have to say is that I am definetly not gullible. My first thought when I am asked to do an investigation is that I look for natural causes first.
I have read your links. I still continue to read them and try to understand. Unlike some of you who have immediately scoffed at ALL the links I have provided for you to read. I have through numerous threads led on to what a ghost is to me. It is you who does not understand. YOu have said I have no proof, shown no evidence. I really believed that at first but I realize know that you have scoffed at what I have shown you. It was not I who did not produce it was you who was not receptive.
You can scoff at the idea of my energy thoughts. That is not as far out verlchs. In fact we have evidence of energy now we have to take it one step further.
Of course there can be discussion even if we do not agree.
Hey Dude I have defined Ghost I have provided evidence ....
Your mind set is just how it is already I am a nutjob and there is no evidence....
So no matter what I say to you Dude I have a feeling you will never be receptive to what I have to say
Valiant Dancer not every Ghost Hunter is a fraud not everyone just immediately believes ....
Many look for natural causes first including me....
But if an event can not be Explained and it is left as an anomoly I do not immedietly put a cause on it to expalin it away
What research have you done Valiant Dancer
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  08:20:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Apart from being a faithful reader of The Anomolist, and some of those articles fail to interest me and others are redundant, I have done exactly none. Of course, there was the optical illusion I experienced so many years ago, but that can't really count. But from my own, life's experience, I've seen no evidence in support of ghosts nor any other, supernatural entity. A pity, really. I would like to see a genuine ghost.

I've also seen a UFO, but I very much doubt that it was a laws-of-physics bending product of alien evolution here to anally probe Richard Nixon with a mattock helve, as excellent an idea as that might have been at the time. It was simply a moving light in the sky of a sort that I'd never seen before. I still don't know what it was and at last report, a few years ago, those who saw it with me haven't figured it out either.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  08:46:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

I have read your links. I still continue to read them and try to understand. Unlike some of you who have immediately scoffed at ALL the links I have provided for you to read.

If you continue to use those woo-woo sites as "evidence" and "proof" you leave me no choice but to start reinforcing my own positions with links to The Onion and The Daily Show.



Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
Go to Top of Page

Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  11:07:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Unlike some of you who have immediately scoffed at ALL the links I have provided for you to read.

I did.

The Synchronized Universe one, for instance, was utter crap. That man wouldn't recognize Physics if it hit him in the face with a magical spork. But he does have something of good to show: that I must make my book's advertizing site AT ONCE.

The cryptozoology one was fun, though added little. Then there was that essay of the dude who said love was energy or something equally silly... I'm pretty much sure I've missed a few.

Oh, and the one about the stars and the sun was cool, though you got all hyped by the mythology page, wasn't it?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  11:24:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
One thing I have to say is that I am definetly not gullible. My first thought when I am asked to do an investigation is that I look for natural causes first.


What a load of BS Storm, and I think you know it is too. Tell me, is this you looking for natural causes first:

quote:
Dear Ricky,

The first ghost picture could very well be a melting of the film. But it might not be. Don't close your mind. Think of the possibilities.


Come on and say that again. I dare you. Tell me that you look for natural explainations first.

quote:
It is you who does not understand. YOu have said I have no proof, shown no evidence. I really believed that at first but I realize know that you have scoffed at what I have shown you. It was not I who did not produce it was you who was not receptive.


Storm, if you think you have shown us evidence, then name what evidence you have shown us. If you can not do so... guess what? You haven't shown us any.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  11:36:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

One thing I have to say is that I am definetly not gullible. My first thought when I am asked to do an investigation is that I look for natural causes first.
I have read your links. I still continue to read them and try to understand. Unlike some of you who have immediately scoffed at ALL the links I have provided for you to read. I have through numerous threads led on to what a ghost is to me. It is you who does not understand. YOu have said I have no proof, shown no evidence. I really believed that at first but I realize know that you have scoffed at what I have shown you. It was not I who did not produce it was you who was not receptive.
You can scoff at the idea of my energy thoughts. That is not as far out verlchs. In fact we have evidence of energy now we have to take it one step further.
Of course there can be discussion even if we do not agree.
Hey Dude I have defined Ghost I have provided evidence ....
Your mind set is just how it is already I am a nutjob and there is no evidence....
So no matter what I say to you Dude I have a feeling you will never be receptive to what I have to say
Valiant Dancer not every Ghost Hunter is a fraud not everyone just immediately believes ....
Many look for natural causes first including me....
But if an event can not be Explained and it is left as an anomoly I do not immedietly put a cause on it to expalin it away
What research have you done Valiant Dancer



I have researched case studies, conducted my own investigations of hauntings, and talked to ghost hunters in general. None of these sources said a goddamn thing about what research was used to determine that cold spots and high gauss readings had thing one to do with hauntings.

You have claimed to present evidence. We have shown that evidence to be suspect including natural causes which you may not have thought of.

This is your final warning before the determination of verlchhood is bestowed upon you. Provide sources which show that high gauss readings and cold spots are caused by hauntings/apparitions.

Last chance, Ace. Don't blow it. And remember, you are the claimant. The burden of proof is on you, not us.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  19:36:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
Hey Dude I have defined Ghost I have provided evidence ....


You've done nothing of the sort.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  20:33:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
I went on this investigation once. The Weekly Planet had asked me if they could do a story on me and ghost investigations. Front page I might add. The weekly planet is like the village voive of Tampa. So the plan was to go pick up the manager of The Old Tampa Theatre known to have had numerous ghostly phenomenon and head on over to the theatre. Dave and I talked about a number of Ghost stories, philosophies and theories. Dave had an experience once. His Aunt had been in the hospital dying when in the middle of the night the phone started to ring, it woke him out of his sleep. He went an answered it. Goodbye the voice said and then a dial tone. It sounded just like my Aunt. Not minutes later the phone rang again it was the hospital saying that his Aunt had died. Dreaming, hallucinating, or decaying energy leaving the body? Decaying consciousness?
Any way we arrive at her house. It was a small house built in the 1930's. We talked for a long time about the different experiences these people had. There was a family that lived in up until the 1980's and then it went from owner to renter to finally the present owners. They had been having a stairwell fixed to the attic when the man building the stairs died. I had two emf or electromagnetic field meters that I used to measure the electromagnetic fields. Some theories say that when ghosts are present electromagnetic field are effected.
There were four of us and the woman asked if we could go outside and start the investigation because they have seen a lot of phenomenon in the backyard. So I decided to use one particular meter which is black. My other tan one I left in my black bag on the couch in the living room and all four of us went outside.
They showed me the orange groves where they had seen some full body apparitions. We procedded to talk and I began to use my emf meter to see if I indeed could pick up anything. Nothing. We went to another place in yard same thing. Nothing. Let's go in she says I will show you were the gentleman died in the house. So we all proceeded to go in the back door brining us into the kitchen. Wouldn't ya know it there was my tan meter on the kitchen counter. No one else was in the house no one coporeal I guess. So I measured it with my other emf meter maybe some residue on it. Nothing. But yet it still managed to come out of my bag and produced itself on the counter
Over and over I have played the scenario in my mind, Trick no we were all together in the backyard, maybe I really took it out and forgot. I might be blonde but I remember, Dave remembers. How did my meter get to the kitchen counter
So gauss and emf meters well I can tell you they might move on there own.
But then again I went on an investigation to an antique shop and there were numerous old pieces of furniture that sent my emf reading off the wall, with no other electronics around. Residual Hauntings, left over energy from dead things. Actually the theory is not way out there as some would think. Lot more possible than clowns dancing on fuckin mars and it has been known for many years in the ghost hunting field.
Ricky I do look for natural explanations first but that does not mean I give that as an explantion if there is none other to give.
If you think my sites I have given you are woo woo. then so be it.
I have given you proof. Look for yourself nowand not just in five minutes. Look at some of these ghost sites. Do some of your own investigations. The phenomenon of GHOSTS exists. What are the explanations I am not sure. Energy something to do with energy..
What investigations Valiant Dancer? I have shared mine share at least one before you kick me off
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  22:26:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Storm, you completely ignore the natural explaination. Let me give you an example. I have a light switch. Every time I switch it to the on position, the light turns on. When I switch it to the off position, the light turns off. Now the natural explaination is that the switch just controls the energy flow to the light. The supernatural or paranormal explaination is that (ohh, lets see..) 4 invisible headless horsemen are watching flick the light switch on and off, and they turn the light on and off accordingly.

What you are saying is that we should not rule out the 4 invisble headless horsemen, but we should approach each, the natural and supernatural, with the same attitude. What we are saying is that the natural should be followed if it explains all events equally well.

How should we approach 4 headless horsemen controlling a light? Should we approach them the same as you approach ghosts? Why or why not?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2004 :  00:02:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Unlike some of you who have immediately scoffed at ALL the links I have provided for you to read.
This is just a lie, and you have the facts at hand to know it's nothing but a lie.

Tell me, Storm: why should we pay any heed to a liar?
quote:
I have through numerous threads led on to what a ghost is to me.
And now you admit to teasing us, but still have failed to directly and honestly answer the question.
quote:
It is you who does not understand.
You're absolutely correct. We cannot understand until you define your terms for us. Only then may we begin to follow in your footsteps of knowledge. That you refuse to help us says quite a lot about your integrity.
quote:
YOu have said I have no proof, shown no evidence. I really believed that at first but I realize know that you have scoffed at what I have shown you.
But that conclusion is incorrect. It is a lie.
quote:
It was not I who did not produce it was you who was not receptive.
It's hard to be receptive when the presenter is so elusive. You refuse to tell us what to look for, and refuse to define your terms with any certainty. For all I know, your next post will suggest that ghosts have something to do with ducks. How can I or anyone else be "receptive" under such ambiguous circumstances?
quote:
You can scoff at the idea of my energy thoughts. That is not as far out verlchs.
Actually, it's precisely as "far out" as some of verlch's ideas. To be perfectly honest, since we know that some conspiracies exist, I'm much more inclined to believe in verlch's Masonic stuff than I am to believe in the sort of "energy" you've been discussing.
quote:
In fact we have evidence of energy now we have to take it one step further.
We have precisely zero evidence of any sort of energy which reacts to people's emotions, and that's the kind of "energy" you have been talking about.
quote:
Of course there can be discussion even if we do not agree.
There cannot be fruitful discussion if we cannot agree upon the basic premises of the ideas.
quote:
Hey Dude I have defined Ghost I have provided evidence ....
You have not defined "ghost" except in words which mean "ghost." Your defintion is circular.
quote:
Your mind set is just how it is already I am a nutjob and there is no evidence....
You're the one who came here with her mind set that all skeptics were close-minded. Hypocrite.
quote:
So no matter what I say to you Dude I have a feeling you will never be receptive to what I have to say
Nice prejudice you've got there.
quote:
Valiant Dancer not every Ghost Hunter is a fraud not everyone just immediately believes ....
Can you give us the name of a ghost hunter who uses scientifically reliable tests to find ghosts?
quote:
Many look for natural causes first including me....
But you reject them in favor of "possibilities."
quote:
But if an event can not be Explained and it is left as an anomoly I do not immedietly put a cause on it to expalin it away
Really? You seem to think that such situations are evidence for ghosts. The properly skeptical answer to a question which cannot be answered is "I don't know," yet you seem loathe to leave it at that. Instead, you say, "I don't know, but all these other people believe in ghosts, so that must mean something." Or words to that effect.

Your illogic, lies and prejudice are all very astounding, Storm.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 7 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.83 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000