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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  04:34:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
What difference does it make if it is a choice?

quote:
Homosexuality as abortions are choices


quote:
unsupported assertion #1009 from you verlch.

What, besides your own opinion, do you have that supports the idea that homosexuality is a "choice"?

There IS evidence that suggests it is a heritable trait.

Once again you let your ignorance and intolerance override reason and evidence.




I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 01/17/2005 04:36:06
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  07:16:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

What difference does it make if it is a choice?

It shouldn't. But that have never entered the minds of the religious right.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  07:23:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Is belief in fairy tales and gods a choice or is it a genetic illness?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  08:20:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Was Abe Lincoln gay? That is what they were debating on MSNBC today. I guess a new book came out claiming he had homosexual tendencies? Anyone else here of this?



I think the book suffers from questionable authorship. I have heard exactly no statements which support Lincoln being gay.

What this could be is a concerted attack from Southern Dixiecrats to marginalize Lincoln. They tried before by claiming that Lincoln was an atheist. (A charge which had steam for a while before being crushed by a mountian of evidence.)

The only President that has a strong possibility of being Gay was Buchanan.

Quite frankly, who the fuck cares?

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  13:53:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

I think the book suffers from questionable authorship.

Perhaps. I haven't learned much about C.A. Tripp, the author. A former co-author has spoken out against this book:
quote:
C. A. Tripp began writing the book with Philip Nobile, but they had a falling out. The New York Times quotes Mr. Nobile saying "Tripp's book is a fraud", but so far has provided no details.


The author died in 2003 so many questions will remain unanswered.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

I have heard exactly no statements which support Lincoln being gay.

Neither had I until filthy's earlier thread. I lost a gay friend to suicide. (He said he never felt accepted.) So I have a great interest in removing the stigma attached to homosexuality. I am weary of seeing people smeared with their sexuality. I did some research and there does seem to be some support for this claim. The article I found to be the most unbiased is at Wikipedia.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

What this could be is a concerted attack from Southern Dixiecrats to marginalize Lincoln. They tried before by claiming that Lincoln was an atheist. (A charge which had steam for a while before being crushed by a mountian of evidence.)

I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely. The author himself was gay.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

Quite frankly, who the fuck cares?

Entirely too many people do. I hope one day no one will.

Edited to add: The Wikipedia link doesn't work well as posted. If you want to read it try copy and paste with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln's_Sexuality

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
Edited by - Wendy on 01/18/2005 07:36:49
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  15:31:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wendy

quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

I think the book suffers from questionable authorship.

Perhaps. I haven't learned much about C.A. Tripp, the author. A former co-author has spoken out against this book:
quote:
C. A. Tripp began writing the book with Philip Nobile, but they had a falling out. The New York Times quotes Mr. Nobile saying "Tripp's book is a fraud", but so far has provided no details.


The author died in 2003 so many questions will remain unanswered.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

I have heard exactly no statements which support Lincoln being gay.

Neither had I until filthy's earlier thread. I lost a gay friend to suicide. (He said he never felt accepted.) So I have a great interest in removing the stigma attached to homosexuality. I am weary of seeing people smeared with their sexuality. I did some research and there does seem to be some support for this claim. The article I found to be the most unbiased is at Wikipedia.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

What this could be is a concerted attack from Southern Dixiecrats to marginalize Lincoln. They tried before by claiming that Lincoln was an atheist. (A charge which had steam for a while before being crushed by a mountian of evidence.)

I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely. The author himself was gay.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

Quite frankly, who the fuck cares?

Entirely too many people do. I hope one day on one will.

Edited to add: The Wikipedia link doesn't work well as posted. If you want to read it try copy and paste with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln's_Sexuality




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln%27s_Sexuality

This link works a little better.

The link attempts to suggest through innuendo and supposition that Lincoln was gay. It provides no hard evidence nor does it really prove anything. Likewise, as some other contributers to the discussion of the Wikipedia entry have stated, it contains nebulous phrases but provides no meat except for one source site of The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln by C. A. Tripp.

I find the assertation questionable.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  17:37:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I find the assertation questionable.

As do I. I also have a hard time with the idea of digging around in someone's personal life, particularly when they are dead and unable to defend themselves. As far as I'm concerned the only way to prove someone is gay is for them to say so. That seems unlikely to happen in this instance.

Since the book is out there, my attitude at this point is to hope that some good may come of it.


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  22:07:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
Homosexuality as abortions are choices


unsupported assertion #1009 from you verlch.

What, besides your own opinion, do you have that supports the idea that homosexuality is a "choice"?

There IS evidence that suggests it is a heritable trait.

Once again you let your ignorance and intolerance override reason and evidence.






More wishful thinking! Evidence has not been brought in that most of these boys are raised as girls. A boy with a strong "man" as a father is not going to lay with men. Unless he so desires that. Gay men usually die after about 60. Married men live much longer. We are designed to love and care for women and a family. The puzzle peices fit togetther perfectly.

If you want to be gay be gay. Just don't let your left wing socilist teachers in my family tell my children.

You might as well as say, with your foot on the bible, "Gay lifestyle is ok." "There is nothing wrong with laying with men." "You need to accept all sexual preferences of mankind."

Rubbish, nobody needs that in their faces. Keep it on the back burner, mind your fucking business and I'll mind my own fucking business. If any of my family or friends are gay, I still love you, I would never turn my back on you for your choices.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2005 :  22:39:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Verlch:
Gay men usually die after about 60.

More evidence that Lincoln was gay!

But actually, that statistic is for single men, not gay men. And I'm to lazy to look up the exact statistic.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2005 :  00:37:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
There is little point in bothering Kil...

verlch wouldn't care anyway.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2005 :  01:04:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Keep it on the back burner, mind your fucking business and I'll mind my own fucking business. If any of my family or friends are gay, I still love you, I would never turn my back on you for your choices.
Amazing!
A (part of a) post from verlch that has both tolerance and humor.

Was it intentional?

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
Edited by - Starman on 01/18/2005 01:05:33
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2005 :  01:31:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
Amazing!
A (part of a) post from verlch that has both tolerance and humor.

Was it intentional?



Unlikely.

verlch fails to comprehend that it is only his opinion that says gay people are gay by choice. He says he wouldn't turn his back on anyone in his family if they were gay, but his condemnation of their nature as a "choice", and one he clearly states he finds morally reprehensible, is worse than just turning his back on them.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2005 :  05:59:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
So the problem's with gay men. Lesbians obviously don't count, right V?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2005 :  07:33:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

So the problem's with gay men. Lesbians obviously don't count, right V?

I'm pretty sure women don't count at all for any reason, Siberia.

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2005 :  08:04:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

So the problem's with gay men. Lesbians obviously don't count, right V?



Of course not. It isn't prohibited in the Bible. Only men laying with mankind. Although how he gets past the hebrew word meaning ritualistic sin in the passage instead of physical sin is comical.


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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