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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  11:53:59  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
Does the concept of the Conspiracy Theory and the derogatory descriptor "Conspiracy Theorist" help to hide true conspiracies? Afterall, conspiracies are real - they've been exposed in the past. It's much the same as the demonization of the term 'liberal.' Conservatives managed to make it a dirty word to be their political opposite. It's a brilliant bit of social engineering that our nation will suffer because of for a generation or two at least . . . . So, is this same thing happening with the idea of Conspiracy?

-Chaloobi

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  12:56:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Semantics can screw any situation unfortunatly, this is one of them.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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sweetmiracle
Skeptic Friend

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  13:26:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sweetmiracle a Private Message
Good point. The Third Reich started as a conspiracy....

Two US congressmen saw the "theory" and tried to publicize it by publishing Mein Kampf in the US in the late twenties. Hitler sued for copyright infringement and won.

Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.

-Carl Sagan
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  13:38:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
No, chaloobi, because the people who investigate real conspiracies are called 'police' or 'FBI agents' or 'reporters.' And what they examine are called 'crimes' or 'unethical behaviour' until enough evidence is uncovered that it's clear that more than one person and/or company is involved.

A search of Google News makes it pretty clear that real conspiracies are being investigated and prosecuted all the time. A search for a common conspiracy like "price fixing" also makes it clear that people aren't paying less attention to these real crimes because of flaky conspiracy "theorists."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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sweetmiracle
Skeptic Friend

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  14:47:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sweetmiracle a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

No, chaloobi, because the people who investigate real conspiracies are called 'police' or 'FBI agents' or 'reporters.' And what they examine are called 'crimes' or 'unethical behaviour' until enough evidence is uncovered that it's clear that more than one person and/or company is involved.

A search of Google News makes it pretty clear that real conspiracies are being investigated and prosecuted all the time. A search for a common conspiracy like "price fixing" also makes it clear that people aren't paying less attention to these real crimes because of flaky conspiracy "theorists."



But remember, the police, reporters, FBI, etc. are all part of the conspiracy....along with the Vatican, the NSA, the Boy Scouts....

Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.

-Carl Sagan
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  08:41:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sweetmiracle

quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

No, chaloobi, because the people who investigate real conspiracies are called 'police' or 'FBI agents' or 'reporters.' And what they examine are called 'crimes' or 'unethical behaviour' until enough evidence is uncovered that it's clear that more than one person and/or company is involved.

A search of Google News makes it pretty clear that real conspiracies are being investigated and prosecuted all the time. A search for a common conspiracy like "price fixing" also makes it clear that people aren't paying less attention to these real crimes because of flaky conspiracy "theorists."



But remember, the police, reporters, FBI, etc. are all part of the conspiracy....along with the Vatican, the NSA, the Boy Scouts....

Really, it's all a Zionist conspiracy perpetrated chiefly be Mossad. The pope is afterall a Mossad agent.

-Chaloobi

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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  08:47:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

No, chaloobi, because the people who investigate real conspiracies are called 'police' or 'FBI agents' or 'reporters.' And what they examine are called 'crimes' or 'unethical behaviour' until enough evidence is uncovered that it's clear that more than one person and/or company is involved.

A search of Google News makes it pretty clear that real conspiracies are being investigated and prosecuted all the time. A search for a common conspiracy like "price fixing" also makes it clear that people aren't paying less attention to these real crimes because of flaky conspiracy "theorists."

It seems though that a more outrageous conspiracy might remain hidden because of the slur behind 'conspiracy theorist.' The police or a reporter is likely to blow evidence for it off not wanting to risk their reputation through such a label. And it's the really outrageous conspiracies that are the most dangerous. I mean, afterall, think of the damage that water fluoridation has done to the US, what with all it's mind fogging properties. . . . This is why rural Americans in the red states seem so odd to the rest of us - they actually think clearly, being largely fluoride free. I think there is a conspiracy behind the Conspiracy Theorist slur. It's being promoted by some hidden faction to hide itself and others like it so the 12 Jewish families that control the US and most of the Western world can maintain that control via behind-the-scenes manipulation.

-Chaloobi

Edited by - chaloobi on 03/03/2005 08:48:42
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  09:45:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

It seems though that a more outrageous conspiracy might remain hidden because of the slur behind 'conspiracy theorist.' The police or a reporter is likely to blow evidence for it off not wanting to risk their reputation through such a label. And it's the really outrageous conspiracies that are the most dangerous.

chaloobi, don't you think it's possible that the outrageous conspiracies are blown off because they are outrageous, and not because they are called conspiracies?

For example, take this thread that provides a link to a story about the theft of a 16' in-ground pool:
quote:
The woman who owns the cabin with her husband says no one, not even the police, believed them at first.

Just an example of someone who had trouble getting help, not because of semantics, but because she reported something pretty difficult to believe.

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  10:49:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

I mean, afterall, think of the damage that water fluoridation has done to the US, what with all it's mind fogging properties. . . . This is why rural Americans in the red states seem so odd to the rest of us - they actually think clearly, being largely fluoride free. I think there is a conspiracy behind the Conspiracy Theorist slur. It's being promoted by some hidden faction to hide itself and others like it so the 12 Jewish families that control the US and most of the Western world can maintain that control via behind-the-scenes manipulation.
Okay, so this thread is a joke. Got it.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  11:03:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

I mean, afterall, think of the damage that water fluoridation has done to the US, what with all it's mind fogging properties. . . . This is why rural Americans in the red states seem so odd to the rest of us - they actually think clearly, being largely fluoride free. I think there is a conspiracy behind the Conspiracy Theorist slur. It's being promoted by some hidden faction to hide itself and others like it so the 12 Jewish families that control the US and most of the Western world can maintain that control via behind-the-scenes manipulation.
Okay, so this thread is a joke. Got it.

Well, the original idea isn't a joke. It's a legitmate question and I think it was answered pretty solidly. Once the serious stuff is over, it's ok to joke around a bit. Loosen that tie a bit Dave.

-Chaloobi

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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  11:07:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wendy

quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

It seems though that a more outrageous conspiracy might remain hidden because of the slur behind 'conspiracy theorist.' The police or a reporter is likely to blow evidence for it off not wanting to risk their reputation through such a label. And it's the really outrageous conspiracies that are the most dangerous.

chaloobi, don't you think it's possible that the outrageous conspiracies are blown off because they are outrageous, and not because they are called conspiracies?

For example, take this thread that provides a link to a story about the theft of a 16' in-ground pool:
quote:
The woman who owns the cabin with her husband says no one, not even the police, believed them at first.

Just an example of someone who had trouble getting help, not because of semantics, but because she reported something pretty difficult to believe.


LOL - That's a riot. Now, what if the woman made an accusation regarding a conspiracy of similarly bizarre scope? My guess is she would be initially rebuffed but when she provided solid evidence, a real investigation would be done - similar to her showing the police the hole where the pool was. Is this directly analagous?

-Chaloobi

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  11:33:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

quote:
Originally posted by Wendy

quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

It seems though that a more outrageous conspiracy might remain hidden because of the slur behind 'conspiracy theorist.' The police or a reporter is likely to blow evidence for it off not wanting to risk their reputation through such a label. And it's the really outrageous conspiracies that are the most dangerous.

chaloobi, don't you think it's possible that the outrageous conspiracies are blown off because they are outrageous, and not because they are called conspiracies?

For example, take this thread that provides a link to a story about the theft of a 16' in-ground pool:
quote:
The woman who owns the cabin with her husband says no one, not even the police, believed them at first.

Just an example of someone who had trouble getting help, not because of semantics, but because she reported something pretty difficult to believe.


LOL - That's a riot. Now, what if the woman made an accusation regarding a conspiracy of similarly bizarre scope? My guess is she would be initially rebuffed but when she provided solid evidence, a real investigation would be done - similar to her showing the police the hole where the pool was. Is this directly analagous?



I believe they would be. The claim is outrageous, but she isn't claiming extraordinary means by which the claim came about.

It's usually the outrageousness of the claim coupled with the depth and breadth of the conspiracy which give it an unreal feeling.

There are actual conspiracies with attendant documentation which have similar difficulties in getting someone to listen to them. The scope of the Cicero, IL corruption conspiracy took years to find and prosecute. (Then Mayor Loren-Maltese is now in prison. She was arrested while in office.)

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  13:12:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

Well, the original idea isn't a joke. It's a legitmate question and I think it was answered pretty solidly. Once the serious stuff is over, it's ok to joke around a bit. Loosen that tie a bit Dave.
Tie? TIE?!? You wound me, sir. I have been mortally injured. I throw the gauntlet, I spit in your soda, I... I... I'm experiencing chest pains...


- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2005 :  14:21:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
"Anti-conspiracists insist that, unlike the rest of us, the rich
and powerful do not act with deliberate intent." Michael Parenti

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2005 :  08:14:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

"Anti-conspiracists insist that, unlike the rest of us, the rich
and powerful do not act with deliberate intent." Michael Parenti


Interesting. Now we hear wisdom from the opposite side of the question. Sort of.

-Chaloobi

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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2005 :  08:15:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

Well, the original idea isn't a joke. It's a legitmate question and I think it was answered pretty solidly. Once the serious stuff is over, it's ok to joke around a bit. Loosen that tie a bit Dave.
Tie? TIE?!? You wound me, sir. I have been mortally injured. I throw the gauntlet, I spit in your soda, I... I... I'm experiencing chest pains...



Soda? What's a 'soda?'

-Chaloobi

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