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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 08/27/2005 : 18:36:19 [Permalink]
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| I see that CNN is posting some pictures from the Rover's cilmb to the top of "Husband Hill". However, as bigbrain will doubtless point out, these pics look a lot like West Texas. More NASA trickery! |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 01:01:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
... you're wrong if the photo is being taken uphill, which this one seems to be ...
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PERSPECTIVE - LESSON 2
Suppose you have the sea (almost an infinite plane) in front of you.
Well, where do you see horizon? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES.
Climb up a higher place. Where do you see horizon? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES.
Joining with two lines the two legs on the left and the two legs on the right of LM we have seen horizon should be above the astronaut's head.
SO THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN BY A CAMERA AT 1.8 - 2 METERS (as regards the plane of legs) OF HEIGHT AND NOT UPHILL.
Put a chair in your garden and take a picture.
Join the two legs on the left with a line and the two legs on the right with another line.
You'll see horizon is in the intersection point of the two lines AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR CAMERA.
Put the chair horizontal hanging on a tree at three meters of height and take a picture UPHILL.
How do you see its legs now? THE TWO LEGS (their feet) BEHIND ARE BELOW THE TWO LEGS (their feet) IN FRONT OF YOU.
IF YOU TAKE PICTURES UPHILL, THINGS CHANGE COMPLETELY.
YOU CAN'T CONFUTE THIS ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE 
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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| Edited by - bigbrain on 08/28/2005 04:21:38 |
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 04:28:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by woolytoad
quote:
Originally posted by sts60
[b]When it turns to steam, it doesn't absorb any more heat, but it expands to 1700 times its liquid volume
Don't you mean the steam doesn't get any hotter? I'm reading heat==energy here and from boiling to steam we still need to supply the latent heat of vaporisation.
You're right. That's what I was trying to say - evidently not very clearly. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 06:06:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
PERSPECTIVE - LESSON 2
Suppose you have the sea (almost an infinite plane) in front of you.
Well, where do you see horizon? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES.
Climb up a higher place. Where do you see horizon? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES.
Hahahahahahaha! If I point the camera straight up in the air, where is the horizon? Nowhere. If I point the camera at the ground, where is the horizon? Nowhere. It doesn't matter how much you scream it, "AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES" doesn't work.quote:
Joining with two lines the two legs on the left and the two legs on the right of LM we have seen horizon should be above the astronaut's head.
SO THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN BY A CAMERA AT 1.8 - 2 METERS (as regards the plane of legs) OF HEIGHT AND NOT UPHILL.
So the astronaut is question must be less than 1.8 meters tall, since the horizon is supposed to be "AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES" and above the astronaut's head.quote:
Put a chair in your garden and take a picture.
Join the two legs on the left with a line and the two legs on the right with another line.
You'll see horizon is in the intersection point of the two lines AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR CAMERA.
That only tells you where the vanishing point for the perspective is, it doesn't show you where the Moon's horizon should be, since perspective still has a vanishing point even when the Moon's horizon is not in the frame (camera pointed up, for example).quote:
YOU CAN'T CONFUTE THIS ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE
It was confuted 20 years ago. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 06:06:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
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Originally posted by Dave W.
... you're wrong if the photo is being taken uphill, which this one seems to be ...
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PERSPECTIVE - LESSON 2
Suppose you have the sea (almost an infinite plane) in front of you.
Wrong. The surface of the earth is curved.
quote:
Well, where do you see horizon? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES.
Wrong. The surface is below the height of your eyes.
quote:
Climb up a higher place. Where do you see horizon? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES.
Wrong. Below the height of your eyes.
quote:
Joining with two lines the two legs on the left and the two legs on the right of LM we have seen horizon should be above the astronaut's head.
SO THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN BY A CAMERA AT 1.8 - 2 METERS (as regards the plane of legs) OF HEIGHT AND NOT UPHILL.
You have reversed Dave's meaning. He was saying that the ground sloped uphill going away from the camera. In other words, that the camera was below the apparent horizon of the hill or rise behind the subject.
quote:
Put a chair in your garden and take a picture.
Join the two legs on the left with a line and the two legs on the right with another line.
You'll see horizon is in the intersection point of the two lines AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR CAMERA.
Wrong again. If the surface is flat the chair will be slightly below human eye level.
quote:
Put the chair horizontal hanging on a tree at three meters of height and take a picture UPHILL.
How do you see its legs now? THE TWO LEGS (their feet) BEHIND ARE BELOW THE TWO LEGS (their feet) IN FRONT OF YOU.
IF YOU TAKE PICTURES UPHILL, THINGS CHANGE COMPLETELY.
Again, Dave was saying that the subject was uphill from the camera. Also the terrain from photographer to suject can be perfectly flat, and the uphill slope is behind the LEM.
In your earlier post you said:
quote:
If a building in front of you hides horizon, can you know where it is?
This is a similar case, where a rise of the ground surface hides the horizon.
quote:
YOU CAN'T CONFUTE THIS ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE
Wrong. You can't interpret this absolute evidence.
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- TW
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 06:13:25 [Permalink]
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Dave and I posted refutations of the nonsense at exactly the same second. Since there are an infinite number of seconds in an eternity, the odds against this happening are infinity to one, which means that it is impossible without a miracle.
It is only through the divine grace of the Flying Spaghetti Monster that we should both be touched by his noodley appendage in this way. |
- TW
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 06:21:44 [Permalink]
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| Maybe bigbrain believes the earth is flat. It would explain a lot. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 07:12:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tw101356
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PERSPECTIVE - LESSON 2
Suppose you have the sea (almost an infinite plane) in front of you.
Wrong. The surface of the earth is curved.
I'VE SAID "ALMOST AN INFINITE PLANE", I know the earth is slightly curved at the horizon 
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Well, where do you see horizon? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES.
Wrong. The surface is below the height of your eyes.
I'M IN VIESTE, GARGANO, PUGLIA, ITALY AND I CAN SEE THE SEA. TRUST ME, THE HORIZON IS AT THE HEIGHT OF MY EYES
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Climb up a higher place. Where do you see horizon? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES.
Wrong. Below the height of your eyes.
RIGHT, IF I CLIMB ON MY CHAIR THE HORIZON CLIMBS AT THE EIGHT OF MY EYES
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Joining with two lines the two legs on the left and the two legs on the right of LM we have seen horizon should be above the astronaut's head.
SO THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN BY A CAMERA AT 1.8 - 2 METERS (as regards the plane of legs) OF HEIGHT AND NOT UPHILL.
You have reversed Dave's meaning. He was saying that the ground sloped uphill going away from the camera. In other words, that the camera was below the apparent horizon of the hill or rise behind the subject.
IF YOU HAVE AN HORIZONTAL SQUARE IN A PICTURE, TO FIND HORIZON IT'S ENOUGH TO JOIN THE TWO POINTS ON THE LEFT WITH A LINE AND THE TWO POINTS ON THE RIGHT WITH ANOTHER LINE.
THE HORIZON IS IN THE INTERSECTION POINT OF THE TWO LINES
You must study perspective.
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Put a chair in your garden and take a picture.
Join the two legs on the left with a line and the two legs on the right with another line.
You'll see horizon is in the intersection point of the two lines AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR CAMERA.
Wrong again. If the surface is flat the chair will be slightly below human eye level.
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THE CHAIR IS SLIGHTLY BELOW HUMAN EYE LEVEL, BUT THE HORIZON IS AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES
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Put the chair horizontal hanging on a tree at three meters of height and take a picture UPHILL.
How do you see its legs now? THE TWO LEGS (their feet) BEHIND ARE BELOW THE TWO LEGS (their feet) IN FRONT OF YOU.
IF YOU TAKE PICTURES UPHILL, THINGS CHANGE COMPLETELY.
Again, Dave was saying that the subject was uphill from the camera. Also the terrain from photographer to suject can be perfectly flat, and the uphill slope is behind the LEM.
I HAVE UNDERSTOOD VERY WELL DAVE'S WORDS. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 07:31:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
I'VE SAID "ALMOST AN INFINITE PLANE", I know the earth is slightly curved at the horizon
You may know it, but you don't understand it.quote:
I'M IN VIESTE, GARGANO, PUGLIA, ITALY AND I CAN SEE THE SEA. TRUST ME, THE HORIZON IS AT THE HEIGHT OF MY EYES
No, you are not trustworthy.quote:
RIGHT, IF I CLIMB ON MY CHAIR THE HORIZON CLIMBS AT THE EIGHT OF MY EYES
If you climb, the elevation of the horizon goes up? Fantastic. You climb a ladder, and I'll climb down a ladder at the same time. The horizon ought to shatter from being pulled in two different directions.quote:
IF YOU HAVE AN HORIZONTAL SQUARE IN A PICTURE, TO FIND HORIZON IT'S ENOUGH TO JOIN THE TWO POINTS ON THE LEFT WITH A LINE AND THE TWO POINTS ON THE RIGHT WITH ANOTHER LINE.
THE HORIZON IS IN THE INTERSECTION POINT OF THE TWO LINES
You must study perspective.
No, you must study perspective. You have described finding the vanishing point. The vanishing point is often not same as the horizon.quote:
THE CHAIR IS SLIGHTLY BELOW HUMAN EYE LEVEL, BUT THE HORIZON IS AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES
Only if your eyes are pointed directly at the horizon.quote:
I HAVE UNDERSTOOD VERY WELL DAVE'S WORDS.
No, you haven't. If you did, you wouldn't be saying ludicrous things about the horizon moving vertically just because you moved vertically. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 10:53:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
... If you did, you wouldn't be saying ludicrous things about the horizon moving vertically just because you moved vertically.
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PERSPECTIVE - LESSON 3
For our eyes the sea can be supposed as an infinite plane (even if it's slightly curve).
To understand how things function in perspective views, you must go to the sea doing these experiments:
in a clear day lay yourself down on sand and look at the horizon.
Where is it? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES (lowest).
Stand up and look at the horizon. Where is it? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES (normal).
Climb on the bathing-attendant chair and look at the horizon. Where is it? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES (high).
Go in the room of your hotel at the fifth floor and look at the horizon. Where is it? AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR EYES (highest).
THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE.
IT'S NOT POSSIBLE NOBODY SAYS: YOU ARE PERFECTLY RIGHT.
Please, could anyone who lives near the sea say I'm right?
It's a simplest thing in my country. Our painters have discovered perspective.
http://mathforum.org/sum95/math_and/perspective/perspect.html
"If you look along a straight road, the parallel sides of the road appear meet at a point in the distance. This point is called the vanishing point and has been used to add realism to art since the 1400's in Florence, Italy"
http://www.photoastronomique.net/photo_us.php?nom=dcp_10233-36
(highest horizon)
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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| Edited by - bigbrain on 08/28/2005 11:30:59 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 12:45:06 [Permalink]
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Why bother with this imbecil?
After 30+ pages, he still refuse to understand geometry.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 12:45:47 [Permalink]
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SO THIS PICTURE IS FAKE
http://history.nasa.gov/ap11ann/kippsphotos/5927.jpg
In this picture, where is the true horizon?
Print that image and join the two legs (their feet) on the left with a rectilinear line. Then join the two legs (their feet) on the right with a rectilinear line.
THE TRUE HORIZON IS IN THE INTERSECTION POINT OF THE TWO LINES, ABOVE THE ASTRONAUT'S HELMET.
That image is fake because you should see a larger portion of the moon.
THIS MOON IS ILLUMINATED BY A SPOT LIGHT AND NOT BY THE SUN.
THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE THAT YOU CAN'T CONFUTE
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 13:00:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Why bother with this imbecil?
After 30+ pages, he still refuse to understand geometry.
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If you don't understand it's not your fault.
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 15:00:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Please, could anyone who lives near the sea say I'm right?
I live by the sea. You are NOT right.
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 22:41:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hawks
"... Please, could anyone who lives near the sea say I'm right? ..."
I live by the sea. You are NOT right.
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IF I AM NOT RIGHT, MAYBE YOU MUST GO TO A CLEVER OCULIST.
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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