|
|
|
Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2006 : 01:58:32 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Another question, then: Leipzig said to the effect that the gasses would 'boil off,' rather than escape. Is this concievable?
I think he may have been refering to the effect of the very high temperature resulting from the condensation of all that water causing some molecules in the atmosphere to reach escape velocity. It is much too late for me to do the math on this.
The problem with the God did it and to hell with the laws of physics argument is why would an infinitely powerful god use such a complicated round about method to get rid of all the sinners and start over. A good human specific epidemic would have done the job and spared all the innocent animals. The Flood and Ark nonsense only makes sense if the method has to be something that makes sense to a bunch of nomadic desert dwelling herders and to no-one else. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2006 : 02:49:48 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Sorry to change the subject, but...
Since Morton was a young-Earth creationist, it strikes me as odd that he'd write this:quote:
Originally written by Morton
Is there any scientific fact that will move them to reconsider their views?
He seems to be implying here that it wasn't scientific facts which led to his own "conversion." If true, then he's basically agreeing that no amount of logic or science is going to change the mind of a person who has reached a conclusion without using logic and science. Shouldn't Morton be putting his limited time and effort into spreading whatever it was that led to his reconsideration of his one-time views, since he's got at least some evidence that whatever that was works?
The best answer is the simplest one, I think. No two people think alike and no one likes to be shown wrong. Giving up a profound belief is an all but traumatic experience -- suicides have occurred over it. There is also something of a social stigma in that Morton, as an apostate, is roundly despised in YEC circles.
Being apostate can and has gotten a lot of people messily killed.
I have told both verlch and Bill, et al, that I would not take their faith away even if I could, and I mean it. Beyond showing them reasons to examine that faith closely, and picking an argument with them now and again, I'll not lift a finger. Hell, if their cars break down, I'll even give them a ride to church if they'll promise not to lay a witnessing on me along the way.
Y'see, religious faith might as well be hard-wired into the followers of the various gods; the hardcore followers, anyway. It would quite literally take an act of God to change their minds. As God is all in their minds (hearts) anyway, that ain't very likely. We have seen this so many times on these boards....
Thus, that is what caused Glenn to give up his fundamentalist beliefs in favor of his science: an act of God.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Stargirl
Skeptic Friend
USA
94 Posts |
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 16:19:53 [Permalink]
|
| Oh I hadn't heard that Bill Cosby bit since I was a little kid. How wonderful to hear it again. Thanks Stargirl! |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 19:45:50 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Oh I hadn't heard that Bill Cosby bit since I was a little kid. How wonderful to hear it again. Thanks Stargirl!
I second Marf's sentiments. I haven't heard that one in a looooong time.
It's against putfiles terms of service to link directly to the audio file, but for those who want to listen off-line, you can download the file, called:
http://f2.putfile.com/videos/b5-6206314022.mp3 (intentionally not a hyperlink.)
Of course, this is nothing you couldn't get yourself with a "view page source" or your browser's equivalent.
|
John's just this guy, you know. |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 21:39:58 [Permalink]
|
Wonderful, Stargirl, thanks! That The Coz at his best.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 22:54:20 [Permalink]
|
BTW, Filthy, did I ever mention how much I admire the way you twist and turn a subject around, like you might a new-caught snake, to examine it in ways most of us never think of? This topic is one such example. Thank you so much for helping us think in profound new ways. I honestly consider you my guru. A curmudgeonly old, foul-talking guru.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/25/2006 23:02:26 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 02:29:59 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
BTW, Filthy, did I ever mention how much I admire the way you twist and turn a subject around, like you might a new-caught snake, to examine it in ways most of us never think of? This topic is one such example. Thank you so much for helping us think in profound new ways. I honestly consider you my guru. A curmudgeonly old, foul-talking guru.
Thank you. I am all but awash in false modesty... 
It is said that the devil resides in the details, and that saying is a stone fact, albeit the existence of devils remains very much in question. Noah's story is one of those that looks good in print (if you are a believer), but any close examination of the details clearly demonstrates that it might as well be out of something written by J.K. Rowlng or Stephen King. It's a great yarn filled with magic and desperate times, and at the ending, Good triumphs over..... Wait; wait a minute.... What the hell does Good triumph over, anyway? We've just destroyed the entire surface of the freakin' earth!
Anyhow, the details kill it as effectively as if it were a turkey destined for the celebratory table. The best way to slaughter that turkey is to drive an icepick through it's head, bottom to top. This loosens the feathers and makes it easy to pluck. In a figurative manner, the Icepick of Detail quickly renders the Flood turkey pluckable, lights the oven, and chases the kids out of the kitchen.
It is an ancient story that was told and retold in an ancient land, by people who knew little of the world beyond their own, less than significant patch of it. They were deeply religious simply because their religion was the only explanation they had for natural events. And as stories are told, they tend to get better and better, as the teller plays to his audience (as, I cheerfully admit, I do). It is impossible to know what the original story was, but by the time the OT was assembled, it was doubtless a far cry from it's first telling.
Thus, I often find myself bemused, and sometimes not a little appalled, that so many fail to see the Flood story, among others, for exactly what it is: part of a master storyteller's repertoire.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 22:55:48 [Permalink]
|
Congrats on the Topic of the Month award, Filthy! This topic and you really deserve the honor.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
