Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Religion
 Big Bang
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 15

McQ
Skeptic Friend

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  05:08:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send McQ a Private Message
GK, why do refuse to acknowledge the posts I directed to you? Don't you know that is being rude? I have never been rude to you. I simply asked for clarification on a statement you made. Why don't you answer? I can't possibly be on your ignore list since I never posted to you before this.

I would appreciate you showing some Christian manners and answering my direct question to you. I'm trying to understand your stance on something so as to engage you in meaningful dialogue. I've been considerate. I even say "please". What more could you want?

(edited for typo)

Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette
Edited by - McQ on 10/19/2006 05:09:21
Go to Top of Page

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  05:44:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Do you believe in the Big Bang, yes or no?

And I also asked Moakley and Pleco the same question but I don't believe I ever got an answer.



I actually answered this here.

No, I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. My answer to how the universe started (if it ever had a beginning) is "I don't know."

I do accept that the Big Bang theory currently provides the best possible explanation up Planck epoch of how the universe evolved. However, I am completely open to changes in this theory, or throwing it out compleletely, as long as there is compelling evidence.

Fun fact of the day: Did you know that in 1927 a priest actually came up with the idea that the universe started from a primeval atom?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 10/19/2006 05:45:44
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  05:56:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Do you believe in the Big Bang, yes or no?

And I also asked Moakley and Pleco the same question but I don't believe I ever got an answer.



I actually answered this here.

No, I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. My answer to how the universe started (if it ever had a beginning) is "I don't know."

I do accept that the Big Bang theory currently provides the best possible explanation up Planck epoch of how the universe evolved. However, I am completely open to changes in this theory, or throwing it out compleletely, as long as there is compelling evidence.

Fun fact of the day: Did you know that in 1927 a priest actually came up with the idea that the universe started from a primeval atom?

Yup!

But in all honesty, I found it out only recently while looking for something else. It's also mentioned in the history section of the link I posted whilst bitching about the links of others...




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  08:27:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
quote:
I said I was not going to respond to your posts unless you told me how you believe the world was created.


I'm with pleco on this one the proper answer from a skeptic is I don't know. I do accept that something like the Big Bang happened, but the problem is that scientists can't do any math on the very very start of it because we don't have a unified force theory. We have two sets of physical laws for dealing with big things and very small things, and when we try to do calculations for the very start of the Big Bang, the two sets of equations can't be used together so we're at a loss. This is explained much more clearly in the book I keep recommending about the Big Bang: The First Three Minutes by Steven Weinberg. If you really want to know what scientists think about the Big Bang, read that book. It is very short less than 200 pages, and written to be easy for the layman to understand.

So there, I answered your question and I haven't been rude to you. Now are you going to respond to my critique of the article you posted?

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 10/19/2006 08:28:57
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  09:25:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

If you don't believe in the Big Bang, then why are you quoting some guy who says Moses knew it first? Isn't that being dishonest, like Ann Coulter?



I said I was not going to respond to your posts unless you told me how you believe the world was created. So please don't ask me any more questions unless you answer the question I proposed to you. If you address me again without anwering my question I will have to add you to my block list of Starman and Dr. Mabuse.

Oh, I am so scared by your threats, GK Paul!

Your lack of honesty astounds me. I answered that question TWICE, as I'm sure you know. Here's the link that belies your statement that I did not answer your (irrelevant, unreasonable, and evasive) question. I cannot be held responsible for your failure to read or acknowledge my careful replies. You, however, are to be held responsible. Do that one more time again, and I will place you at the top of my own Ignore List.

You made a promise to members of this forum that you would define and give evidence for your Trinity upon receipt of information on our personal religious beliefs, and how we thought the earth came into being. Several of us have gone through the unreasonable contortions of complying with your childish demands. But you continue to avoid your end of the bargain. Shame of you for bearing false witness, while claiming to follow the Bible!

Now, put up, or shut up!



All you said was that you believe science is the best way to answer questions concerning cosmology, but that doesn't answer my question of how do you believe the world (or universe) was created. Most scientists believe in the Big Bang theory, do you? You have been very skeptical of my beliefs but how can I be skeptical of yours if you won't tell me what they are. Do you believe in the Big Bang, yes or no?

And I also asked Moakley and Pleco the same question but I don't believe I ever got an answer.

I answered your questions to the best of my ability, and with the best of my knowledge, as everyone but you would acknowledge.

You did not ask me about the Big Bang, but about how the earth was formed, which I answered. Now you're requiring an answer about the Big Bang?

I performed every silly little trick you demanded of me, and you -- you self-righteous, sanctimonious little prick -- instead of keeping your end of the bargain, you simply demanded more. And you've treated far more patient and polite people than I just as badly, you rude little weenie of an ingrate.

Well, screw that, you simpering punk. Up yours, you ignoramus, and your dear Ms. Coulter's, too. God-boy, I'm as sick of your lies as I am those of that slutty, fundy hypocrite. You never learn anything, or answer any questions. So from now on, I'll talk around you, and about you, but not to you, you immature, stupid, insignificant piss-ant jerk.

Get thee behind me. I cast thee out! I henceforth IGNORE YOU!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  09:26:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
How was that for sucking up, Starman?

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  10:12:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi

quote:
Originally posted by Dude

Help me out here.... a while back, in another thread, you were claiming that the big bang was impossible...

Now you think it was mentioned in the bible?

...

And after reading that silly little apologetics piece its pretty clear that the writers don't know anything about (or are deliberately misrepresenting) the big bang.



If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. That's how we got Christmas Trees and Easter Egss.

Well actually Isaac Newton, the world's second most influential person, according to that book I mentioned in Caesar's Messiah forum, calculated that Christ's Resurrection occurred on April 3rd; so having it around Easter makes perfect sense. And having holidays that occur around the time of pagan festivals is quite logical. If I was a Christian at that time, I'd want some activities I could go to, instead of just having to go to festival I didn't believe in. I hope you don't start making fun of blacks for having Kwanza around Christmas.

I wasn't making fun of anyone at all.

Regarding holidays -- the Christian holidays were overlayed on top of Pagan (druidic, anyone?) celebrations. Chirstmas trees were originally pagan traditions. Easter eggs are also pagan tradition. It was very practical and prudent to coopt the competing religion's culture to get Christianity more readily accepted among the converts. It makes perfect sense.

Regarding Isaac Newton's calculations: please. The guy found exactly what he was looking for. How hard is that when there's no way to empirically test it?

-Chaloobi

Go to Top of Page

moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  10:17:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

And I also asked Moakley and Pleco the same question but I don't believe I ever got an answer.

Belief is not very useful when evaluating the merits of any assertion, idea, or theory. What is useful is the available evidence and time to stay abreast of what the leading experts, usually scientist, are saying about that evidence. And finally to form my own opinions concerning the available evidence. There have been several links provided by members as filthy, halfmooner, and others that I hope to read tonight. Will you make that effort? I will because I am willing to change my mind.

You consider sincere heart felt faith/belief as evidence. That the testimonials of your like minded fundy buddies is evidence. I've asked you on three occasion why you consider faith and belief so important toward determining the validity of any assertion, especially supernatural assertions. You have ignored these questions. But your history at SFN clearly shows that you ignore difficult questions and valid points contrary to your personal beliefs.

Now, I find myself with another question. What would it take to get you to change your mind regarding your belief in your un-evidenced God?

I suspect that your answer will be along the lines of, "There is nothing that would cause me to change my mind." If that is true, then your position regarding this belief, and perhaps many others, is unreasonable. Thereby, making discussion futile. Points, contrary to your unreasonable mind set, no matter how well research, supported and presented will simple fall on deaf ears, blind eyes, and a closed mind.

You have nothing to offer and have shown no intent to benefit from your time here.

edited:

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
Edited by - moakley on 10/19/2006 10:18:31
Go to Top of Page

Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  11:42:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
I answered your questions to the best of my ability, and with the best of my knowledge, as everyone but you would acknowledge.

You did not ask me about the Big Bang, but about how the earth was formed, which I answered. Now you're requiring an answer about the Big Bang?

I performed every silly little trick you demanded of me, and you -- you self-righteous, sanctimonious little prick -- instead of keeping your end of the bargain, you simply demanded more. And you've treated far more patient and polite people than I just as badly, you rude little weenie of an ingrate.

Well, screw that, you simpering punk. Up yours, you ignoramus, and your dear Ms. Coulter's, too. God-boy, I'm as sick of your lies as I am those of that slutty, fundy hypocrite. You never learn anything, or answer any questions. So from now on, I'll talk around you, and about you, but not to you, you immature, stupid, insignificant piss-ant jerk.

Get thee behind me. I cast thee out! I henceforth IGNORE YOU!


Well, that pretty much sums up my opinion on GK Paul too.

However, being a moderator, I'm obligated to show some restraint with my words, so I couldn't express them myself.

But I'm a forgiving kind of person, so if GK Paul should express remorse and ask for a second chance, I certainly will give him one. He stated that I did have some thoughtful insight in the post before he officially put my on his ignore list, so he's not completely without hope. He just have to shake his sinful pride, for starters. The way he's acting now, he making baby Jesus cry.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 10/19/2006 11:42:54
Go to Top of Page

McQ
Skeptic Friend

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  11:44:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send McQ a Private Message
Well, as it seems being gracious doesn't seem to help when posting to GKPaul, I kind of like Halfmooner's approach. I can't imagine what he thought I might have done to him to have him be so rude to me.

Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette
Go to Top of Page

GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  16:24:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by McQ

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

If you don't believe in the Big Bang, then why are you quoting some guy who says Moses knew it first? Isn't that being dishonest, like Ann Coulter?



I said I was not going to respond to your posts unless you told me how you believe the world was created. So please don't ask me any more questions unless you answer the question I proposed to you. If you adresss me again without anwering my question I will have to add you to my block list of Starman and Dr. Mabuse.



I know this isn't my thread, and the question wasn't asked of me, but I can't help but ask this: What does the creation of the "world" (I assume you mean Earth) have to do with the Big Bang Theory?



It has everything to do with it if your one of the scientists who accept the big bang theory


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
Go to Top of Page

McQ
Skeptic Friend

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  17:02:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send McQ a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

quote:
Originally posted by McQ

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

If you don't believe in the Big Bang, then why are you quoting some guy who says Moses knew it first? Isn't that being dishonest, like Ann Coulter?



I said I was not going to respond to your posts unless you told me how you believe the world was created. So please don't ask me any more questions unless you answer the question I proposed to you. If you adresss me again without anwering my question I will have to add you to my block list of Starman and Dr. Mabuse.



I know this isn't my thread, and the question wasn't asked of me, but I can't help but ask this: What does the creation of the "world" (I assume you mean Earth) have to do with the Big Bang Theory?



It has everything to do with it if your one of the scientists who accept the big bang theory



GK Paul, you didn't answer the question. Let me be more clear. What exactly do you think the Big Bang Theory has to do with the creation of the Earth itself? Our planet only, since that is what I assume you mean when you say "the world". Now please be so kind to answer the question asked of you. Don't try and second guess me or assume something that I haven't done or said. It's a straightforward question and deserves a straightforward answer.

(edited to add last two sentences)

Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette
Edited by - McQ on 10/22/2006 17:05:28
Go to Top of Page

GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  17:37:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
Well, GK Paul, you continue to appear dishonest. Looks like you've outright lied to virtually everyone in this conversation, yet you have the audacity to call other people rude. You continue to make yourself look like, as was so well stated by HalfMooner, a sanctimonious little prick and an immature, smart mouthed ingrate. Your dishonesty continues to be exposed, one of the most glaring examples being your lying to HalfMooner (and all the rest of us, too, by the way) about your intent to define your bogeyman god and provide evidence for its existence. Contrary to your terms, you have so far failed to do any such thing.

But even given overwhelming evidence to support the notion that you are a liar, there still exists a remote possibility of another cause creating the appearance of your lying, so let me ask you this once again...

Do you have some kind of known reading disability? Is English not your first language? Do you suffer from a mental illness which might prevent you from rationally discussing the topics of this conversation? Are you just a troll intentionally saying stupid sounding things and intentionally ignoring issues when others ask you to address them? Or, as has been suggested before and the option which appears most likely to be correct, do you simply lack the moral courage and integrity to engage in an honest discussion about your superstitious beliefs?

And, if your apparent lack of ability to communicate effectively is just the result of your being a mouthy lying asshole, how do you make it right in your mind that you must resort to such dishonesty in order to support your superstition? Does your terrorist god approve of you lying to defend its existence? Is there somewhere in your book of fables where it says it's okay for you to knowingly bear false witness?

Come on, GK Paul, how about you answer the several questions posed above, then we can all have a better idea as to how we might be able to communicate with you more effectively.
Go to Top of Page

Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  02:08:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

But I'm a forgiving kind of person, so if GK Paul should express remorse and ask for a second chance, I certainly will give him one.
Same here.
Whenever GK Paul is ready to stop lying and dodging issues and answers in this rude and cowardly way, I will be ready to discuss any of his topics with him.
No apology is needed, he just need to stop lying and start to answer questions.

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
Go to Top of Page

skeptic griggsy
Skeptic Friend

USA
77 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2006 :  18:27:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit skeptic griggsy's Homepage Send skeptic griggsy a Private Message
I find that it isn't the Big Bang ,settled by consensuf for now ,isn't what now counts,but which bounce or bud theory about the polyverse is truer.That would show an eternal multiverse of universes,succeeding one another. Tbe sure theists will use the discredited cosmological argument about explanations ,culminating in the Great Explainer . See the new thread on Existence.

Fr. Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. Logic is the bane of theists.Religion is mythinformation. Reason saves, not a dead Galilean fanatic.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 15 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.91 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000