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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  20:50:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
check out this website H. http://www.herbertwarmstrong.com/enlyten_energy_sun.htm

I have no problem doing homework.

Thoughts?


Storm
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  21:07:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Can you deny your own experiences and leave the supernatural out
How does leaving the supernatural "out" deny anyone's experiences? Only if a person has decided that an experience was supernatural, that's how. I've had experiences which many people would think of as involving the supernatural. I, however, have no need or reason to jump to such a conclusion.

In other words, I don't deny my own experiences, yet I won't agree with a conclusion for which there is no evidence.
quote:
well at least leave it as the last resort in fact I found a wonderful article on scientific methodology
http://www.psy.gu.se/EJP/EJP.htm

Go here and read the article on Research Methods in Experimental Parapsychology: Problems and Prospects
Here is a direct link to the PDF file.

Interesting article. I kinda like the author. Look at how he contradicts you, Storm:
Parapsychology as we define it is essentially part of natural science. We are looking for laws of nature, we are looking for regularity, we are looking to extend the corpus of existing scientific knowledge, not to confront it or fly in the face of it.
So, it seems that Morris doesn't think at all that we need a "new science," as you do. Instead, he agrees that science is a good thing, and he's trying to add to it.

I think it's also interesting that his comments on Ganfield experiments seem to contradict the conclusions about them offered in the Compendium of PSI, if my memory is serving me well.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  21:07:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
My thoughts are that you aren't doing what was suggested to you, which was to gain a scientific understanding of energy and physics.

Reading "woo-woo" web sites like Herbert Warmstrong's that make such asinine statements as "For example, love is energy" doesn't even merit a failing grade. You receive no credit.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/07/2004 21:10:28
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  21:16:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Physics textbook, Storm. Textbook.

Oh, forcryingoutloud:
Once again, the sun has no light but only the photon energy which produces the illusion of light. But the sun, in itself, transmits no light only the energy that stimulates our retinas to produce what we take for granted as light.
The author forgot to mention that we can't "see" photons, instead what really happens is that photons strike our retinas and become "nerve energy," which our brains then interpret.

What utter crap. Do any physicists claim a distinction between "light" and "photons?" Didn't think so.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  21:26:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Not fair H. I am trying so you have to give credit where credit is do. I shall move on and get back.

Dave let us leave the supernatural out? this is where we will find the new science. A new thought. I am looking for natural causes as well look at our extensive talk about the decomposition of the body and my working on understanding more about energy. My thoughts and comments has lead you and I into thinking more on these phenomenon. I never said there were no natural explanations. But I never said that what we know and call as natural now is the only answer. We just have not labeled some of these phenomenon natural because they are still in the anomaly phase. It shall come in time...
So Dave what drew you to the conclusion that your experiences with either ghosts, telepathy, etc was natural? What made you decide it was not Supernatural. What is Supernatural anyway?
What do some of you define it as?

Storm
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  21:36:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Since I am doing my research on energy and the sun check out this link just for my sake O.K. Give a little guys....

Even if you do not agree the symbolism and history behind it is fascinating

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mythology/planets/sun.html

Storm
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  21:39:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
One more post then off to sleep...

I think Apollo is a good example of the Sun

Reason, Logic,Healing, Music

Storm
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  21:48:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Storm wrote:
quote:
Dave let us leave the supernatural out? this is where we will find the new science.
Apparently, you can't be bothered to read the articles you ask us to read. Or at least, you don't understand this last one. Morris is not advocating a "new science" in any way, shape or form. And he says, clearly, that the supernatural would be very difficult to support in a scientific manner, and he's right.
quote:
So Dave what drew you to the conclusion that your experiences with either ghosts, telepathy, etc was natural? What made you decide it was not Supernatural.
And here we all can see the primary communications problem we're having. And it's a pretty serious one.

The major problem is that you, Storm, continually jump to unwarranted conclusions. I said that I'd had some experiences which others would classify as supernatural, but that I haven't jumped to that conclusion.

In response, you ask me why I concluded that my experiences were natural, but I didn't say that I had concluded such. You jumped to that conclusion. What's the other possibility? That I have concluded that due to time, malleable memory, and lack of any evidence, I'll never know whether certain experiences were natural or supernatural. In other words, "I don't have a freakin' clue, and never will" is the only conclusion I'm able to make.

But, you seem to assume that anyone who disagrees with you must hold a diametrically opposed opinion. That's short-sighted, prejudicial, and constitutes the act of putting words in other people's mouths. Is that, or is that not, rude?

(And yes, I'm aware that you don't like your rudeness pointed out, Storm, but your repeated rudeness and shocked denials tell me you're unwilling to listen to differing views - even when backed with tons of evidence - about things you hold dear. In science, there are no "sacred cows," and showing yourself to be of a scientific mindset by acknowledging your rudeness might be a good start.)

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  22:10:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
But, you seem to assume that anyone who disagrees with you must hold a diametrically opposed opinion. That's short-sighted, prejudicial, and constitutes the act of putting words in other people's mouths. Is that, or is that not, rude?
It would be rude if it were a conscious act. I'm not convinced Storm understands what her words imply half the time. I think of her as slightly oblivious, somewhat arrogant, extremely confused and completely misinformed. Not sure I'd go so far as to call her rude, though... A tad overzealous, maybe?

But she has her endearing qualities as well, including an abounding energy (uh-oh, there's that word again) and a genuine, if misguided, curiosity.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/08/2004 00:19:53
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  04:07:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
But, you seem to assume that anyone who disagrees with you must hold a diametrically opposed opinion. That's short-sighted, prejudicial, and constitutes the act of putting words in other people's mouths. Is that, or is that not, rude?
It would be rude if it were a conscious act. I'm not convinced Storm understands what her words imply half the time. I think of her as slightly oblivious, somewhat arrogant, extremely confused and completely misinformed. Not sure I'd go so far as to call her rude, though... A tad overzealous, maybe?

But she has her endearing qualities as well, including an abounding energy (uh-oh, there's that word again) and a genuine, if misguided, curiosity.

I agree. She's tried my patience a bit, mainly by being eratic, but over all I find her quite interesting.

Were I her instructor, I would assign her an essay on how the enengy produced by the nuciear furmance within a nondescript star in the unfashionalbe part of the galaxy nourishs the various, living systems found on a mudball some 96,000,000 miles from it. That might make an interesting read.

Aside from having the deep-fried chitterlings scared out of me more times that I'd like to remember (Oh shit! Where in the hell did that come from?!), the only supernatural experience I've had was described in another thread and easily explained by natural causes.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  06:34:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Since I am doing my research on energy and the sun check out this link just for my sake O.K. Give a little guys....

Even if you do not agree the symbolism and history behind it is fascinating

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mythology/planets/sun.html


Hey, thanks for that site! I'm really into mythology and that comes in quite handy. Good ideas for the book, also.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  06:55:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
The arrogance of Storm is really starting to get annoying. Storm, you seen to think that since we are skeptics we only read science books and have no knowledge of myths. My guess is that a very large percentage of the skeptics on this site have a greater knowledge of myths and legends than you. It is not that we aren't aware of theses myths, legends and paranormal ideas; the point is we think they are bull shit because they can't be backed up.

Your links aren't opening eyes - it is the same tired crap we have seen time and time again.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  08:11:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

It would be rude if it were a conscious act. I'm not convinced Storm understands what her words imply half the time. I think of her as slightly oblivious, somewhat arrogant, extremely confused and completely misinformed. Not sure I'd go so far as to call her rude, though... A tad overzealous, maybe?

But she has her endearing qualities as well, including an abounding energy (uh-oh, there's that word again) and a genuine, if misguided, curiosity.
I can't find my way towards being so generous. Anyone with the cajones to write a first post on a skeptic's forum which makes mention of how close-minded skeptics are should have a good handle on reality. In other words, the default position is that she's competent, and it'll take more evidence to convince me that she's daft. If such evidence shows up, I'll be more than happy to say, "I apologize for calling you rude, when in reality you're just a ditz."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  16:24:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

So Dave what drew you to the conclusion that your experiences with either ghosts, telepathy, etc was natural?



This is the fallacy of a Complex Question. You assume that Dave (and in a more general sense, everyone here) has had an experience with ghosts and telepathy. I, to my knowledge, have not had any experience with ghosts. With telepathy, you could claim that any time any two people are thinking the same thing, they are telepathic, which is the same reason why telepathy is baloney. It just explains a natural occuring event caused by simple random chance with something more "exciting".

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  15:17:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Random occurences well Ricky when it happens more than 4 or 5 times a day then one wonders how random it really is.
Just because there is no conceivable law of energy does not mean there will not be one day. Maybe I am propsing that. Documented evidence of PSU and Ghost has been reported for thousands of years. However ancedotal these experiences may be the fact is that they do exist. Documents upon documents especially on the subject of ghosts. And we are not talking about those who must go to the light We are talking about surving energy that is released upn death into the environment. Many of our great thiners probably heard the same line you told me that there is no conceivable law or way. But yet look at our Scientific laws today.
There was a time and a quote in this post in reference to energy and lightning and that there was a time when we did not understand it. So maybe this phenomenon we call ghost is just not understood.
As far as making any assumption About Daves experience you did say you have not jumped to the conclusion that your experiences were supernatural.
quote:

"I don't have a freakin' clue, and never will" is the only conclusion I'm able to make
quote:


what is interesting to me Dave is that your quote makes you undecided about what you experienced but yet the experience must have existed? Having no clu to what it was to leave the expereience almost undecide can almost make som think it has some supernatural conotations to it? What happened?

thanks to those who said I was interesting and had endearing qualities. I am not so mislead or confused as you may think. Definetly not a ditz and definetly not rude

If you do not like my posts then don't read them I don't see anyone else having so many posts as I except for maybe Verlc?

Filthy what made you decide that your ghostly phenomeno was just light and fog? because your teacher told you? What if the light and fog and temparture reacted with certain pieces of our energy thus reproducing the apparition. Others have witnessed it too. Nothing of this explanation makes it Supernatural. But quite natural indeed.

It makes me feel somewhat sad and disillusioned that dave and furshur would think I was so rude. I might be forthcoming and assertive but i am not rude.

Storm
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